New Nook STR does not support eReader PDB; wrong files sent to Mac users, by John Schember

That Mac users get PDB files was a workaround for the problem that the Nook for Mac software had problems reading ePub files.
B&N recently released a new version of the Nook for Mac software that downloads everyhing as ePub and seems to work fine.
I assume that PDB downloads will be turned off soon.

As for PDB support in general.
We will have to accept that there are only 2 mainstream e-book formats left; Kindle and ePub.

If B&N are moving away from PDB (hooray), does this mean that Fictionwise are going to move from Secure eReader to Secure ePub as well?

> I assume that PDB downloads will be turned off soon.

Review units are out. The official release is less than two weeks away. Assuming B&N will fix the issue is one thing. Them actually doing it is another. This is something I would have assumed would have been fixed before the big press event and giving out review copies. How bad would it have been if someone like me (a Mac user) was given a review copy only to write that the device can’t be used with many titles B&N sells because it won’t read the files B&N gave me.

> We will have to accept that there are only 2 mainstream e-book formats left; Kindle and ePub.

That’s fine but as of two days ago B&N was still giving me eReader PDB files. Buying an ebook from a store then being given a file that can’t be read on the device sold by the store isn’t very nice.

It isn’t that difficult to use Calibre for conversions. It can change practically any format into any other format.

> It isn’t that difficult to use Calibre for conversions. It can change practically any format into any other format.

I realize this. I’m a calibre developer and I wrote and maintain PDB support for calibre. However, I shouldn’t have to create a third party tool, and use another tool to illegally remove DRM to read books I buy from a store on a the official device sold by that store.

I don’t like when companies make to jump though hoops to use their product.

John, are you running “Nook for Mac” (recently released, requires OS 10.6 or greater) or “Barnes & Noble eReader for Mac”? I’m told that the new Nook for Mac eliminates the problems they were having with ePubs and that everything will now download as ePub (no more pdb). Don’t know if it’s true as I’m running OS 10.5 on my old MBP and Nook for Mac won’t run on that.

Maybe not the most elegant solution, but surely if you were to be using the new nook you could download the epubs directly to the device from B&N.

As a long-time Palm user, it’s sad for me to see the death of the first real eBook format. I don’t know what it would have taken for B&N to maintain this support–I suspect a few hours of coding and a week of test. Maybe if they get a lot of complaints, they’ll add PDB as an update. If I were B&N, I’d definitely develop and play up compatibility with my eReader/Fictionwise subsidiary. There are a lot of us with non-trivial FW libraries we’d like to preserve.

Still, moving forward, ePub has got to be the major thrust for everyone except Amazon (and even there, who knows).

Rob Preece
Publisher

@Rob, it’s possible, but there was a fair amount of complaint when the Nook Color came out without eReader support and nothing was changed in future updates (thing is they already have eReader working on Android so I’m not sure why they elected not to include support on the newer readers, they could just say it’s a legacy format and future development will be minimal/none and many would be happy).

> John, are you running “Nook for Mac” (recently released, requires OS 10.6 or greater) or “Barnes & Noble eReader for Mac”?

No. I use calibre to manage my book so I download from my library at bn.com.

> Maybe not the most elegant solution, but surely if you were to be using the new nook you could download the epubs directly to the device from B&N.

This is very true. But yet another work around for B&N continuing to send eReader PDB files to Mac users.

The reason I see this as a major issue is, many non-technical people buy books from B&N. If they happen to use a Mac there is a good chance they will get an eReader PDB file. How would you feel if: a) You got a file that you can’t read on the official device for the store you purchased from. b) Were told that you have to do xy and z to actually read the book you just bought from B&N on the B&N Nook. It doesn’t look very good for B&N if this is the experience people are having.

Also, notice that in the email I sent to B&N I specifically state that I recently purchased a book and received an eReader PDB. My concern was reading the book I just bought on the device I just ordered. At no point in the response from B&N did they say anything about how to actually read the book I just bought on the Nook STR. They simply said that I can’t read that file on the new Nook. I had to go to MobileRead and start a new thread in order to get any type of clarification on the issue.

To me B&N has fallen down, hard. They are sending Mac users files that won’t work on their device. An email to B&N customer service about being to read books I’ve purchases was given a response of, basically, “you can’t read them on the Nook STR.”

Work arounds for this issue are themselves work arounds and all of them have been provided by third parties. I still don’t see work arounds and not in any way a valid solution.

> there was a fair amount of complaint when the Nook Color came out without eReader support…

I personally skipped the Nook Color because it did not have an e-ink screen. I guess this means that eReader PDB support won’t be coming to the Nook STR, ever.

Um, maybe I’m missing something here, but won’t this really be a non-issue for most users since you can simply download directly to your nook over wifi. Presumably when you update your library from the nook’s own wifi, it should pull the ePub version, right?

“The reason I see this as a major issue is, many non-technical people buy books from B&N. If they happen to use a Mac there is a good chance they will get an eReader PDB file. ”

I’d think most non-technical people probably use the B&N provided software to download (which by all reports gives an epub).

Who’s to say B&N won’t “flip the switch” so Mac users get an ePub by the time the STR is actually available now that it appears they have the bugs worked out of their reader software for Mac? (perhaps their waiting until it’s out of beta)

I agree they should include eReader support (I said so when the Color came out too) especially since a) they already have Android software to do it with and b) they continue to sell eReader files through their two subsidiaries Fictionwise and eReader.

I ordered the new Nook as soon as it was offered on their website, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that I should have checked the specs first. Sure enough, no pdb suport, so I immediately cancelled my order.

Yes, I know how to use Calibre to republish my ebooks into different formats, but that is irrelevant. Since Barnes and Noble purchased both Fictionwise and eReader.com and used their excellent eReader app to create the first mobile reading app that B&N produced for the iPhone, I feel that B&N is betraying their loyal customers by withdrawing their support of the pdb format that they originally adopted.

Changing your options to re-download your purchases from B&N as epubs is a good workaround; however, I have several hundred pdb ebooks I purchased from Fictionwise and eReader.com, both Barnes and Noble companes now, so will customers like me have the option to download these as epubs? I highly doubt it.

This is one reason (of several) why I won’t buy a B&N ereader – if they can so casually abandon support for one of their formats, who is to say that they won’t equally abandon support for their current DRM in favor of another version? I do not have confidence that any B&N ebooks I may buy would be secure.

> Who’s to say B&N won’t “flip the switch” so Mac users get an ePub by the time the STR is actually available now that it appears they have the bugs worked out of their reader software for Mac? (perhaps their waiting until it’s out of beta)

Apparently this is also an issue with the Color and they didn’t do it for the Color (which has been out for quite a while) so I don’t have much faith in them doing it for the STR release. If it was a priority then the reader software for Mac would have been fixed when the color was released without eReader PDB support.

> Um, maybe I’m missing something here, but won’t this really be a non-issue for most users since you can simply download directly to your nook over wifi. Presumably when you update your library from the nook’s own wifi, it should pull the ePub version, right?

The users who want to download book via the device over Wifi won’t have an issue. However, why would I want to use the slow e-ink screen to download books over wifi when I have a powerful ebook management application call calibre, that I also happen to help develop, on my computer. Calibre has around 3 million users. So I’m not in a fringe group for wanting to manage my book in this way.

Aren’t you really saying this is a Calibre problem? IT sounds like people working through the two preferred B&N methods, direct to device and download to desktop app, aren’t having the problem anymore. As a Calibre developer, perhaps you should look into that.

“Apparently this is also an issue with the Color and they didn’t do it for the Color (which has been out for quite a while) so I don’t have much faith in them doing it for the STR release. If it was a priority then the reader software for Mac would have been fixed when the color was released without eReader PDB support.”

Seems to me one of the driving factors in fixing the reading software was reaction due to lack of pdb support on the Color and that’s one reason why a new version of Mac software has been released. I have no idea how much of a dev team B&N has nor how much they’re devoting towards Mac software. I’m sure some priorities are going to be higher though.

“However, why would I want to use the slow e-ink screen to download books over wifi when I have a powerful ebook management application call calibre, that I also happen to help develop, on my computer. Calibre has around 3 million users. So I’m not in a fringe group for wanting to manage my book in this way.”

But of those 3 million how many are Mac users? And of those who are Mac users how many are downloading without using the B&N provided software which results in an ePub and not a PDB being downloaded? And how many of those users use Calibre only for conversion tasks like I know I do?

I’m sure B&N has at least some numbers that they’re using to prioritize what gets done and when they are after all a business and have a finite number of resources developing for 5 or more OS’s.

All that may make it sound like I’m on B&N’s “side”, but really I’m not. I think they should keep PDB support as it’s a good selling factor to folks with huge Fictionwise and eReader PDB libraries. They’d be poised with one of the very few devices that can support the format and I can’t see it costing them much to include it since the software was already developed for the Nook Classic.

> Aren’t you really saying this is a Calibre problem? IT sounds like people working through the two preferred B&N methods, direct to device and download to desktop app, aren’t having the problem anymore. As a Calibre developer, perhaps you should look into that.

How is B&N purposely giving Mac users eReader PDB files when they download straight from the B&N web site a calibre problem? If B&N wants to offer a service it should work otherwise people are going to complain. Especially considering that from other comments it’s been an on going issue since the Nook Color was released. Plus the updated desktop app was only released recently. So for over the past 6 moths B&N has been selling and sending books to Mac users that they can’t read.

> But of those 3 million how many are Mac users?…

True it affects a minority of users. However, it’s a major black eye for B&N especially when their lagest competitor, Amazon, isn’t having these issue and has gotten the whole process to be seamless across all platforms and devices.

“True it affects a minority of users. However, it’s a major black eye for B&N especially when their lagest competitor, Amazon, isn’t having these issue and has gotten the whole process to be seamless across all platforms and devices.”

Amen, John!
And while I do prefer the ePub format to that of the Amazon Kindle (even though I have all of those pdb books I’d still like to be able to re-read from time to time), I do have to agree that purchasing, downloading, and reading Kindle books across mutiple platforms is effortless.

Catana says:
May 29, 2011 at 1:21 pm
It isn’t that difficult to use Calibre for conversions. It can change practically any format into any other format.

But the point here is conversions shouldn’t be necessary! I push a button to buy a book from B&N, I expect it to work IMMEDIATELY on a B&N device.

No matter how easy the conversion is, would you be happy if you purchased something through the iTunes store and then had to convert it before you could play it on your iPod?

OK, let’s be straight here, because it’s obvious several users are confused.

1. You download the book with your N2E (Simple Touch Reader) and it will “just work” (it downloads an ePub).

2. You download the book with the NOOK software (really the way to go if your wanting a copy on your PC/Mac) and you’ll get an ePub (yes, this is a new version of the software, but so what?). This will “just work” with the N2E.

3. You download the book from the web using a Mac and it will download a PDB. This was a workaround for the previous version of the Mac software which didn’t work correctly with ePub. It’s lame that this was ever done, and even lamer that it’s not been undone yet. However, while these PDBs won’t work on the NOOK it does NOT mean that B&N is selling you books that won’t work on the device. You can redownload the books you purchased at any time using one of the preferred methods (and probably this method in the future) and get an ePub that will work on the device.

The sky isn’t falling, and far more importantly B&N is selling you books you can’t read.

Yes, there may be a bit of an inconvenience factor for some (though if you switch to using the B&N software you’ll be glad you did, as this is the best way to download books to the PC/Mac). More importantly, if you bought PDB files from someone other than B&N you won’t be able to use them on the N2E. So I’m not claiming this is a non-issue, but it is being made out to sound MUCH worse than the reality, and it’s obvious this is causing concern for several people who should not be concerned.

> 1. You download the book with your N2E (Simple Touch Reader) and it will “just work” (it downloads an ePub).

After the issues with 1984 on the Kindle, I will never allow my reader to connect to the internet.

> 2. You download the book with the NOOK software

B&N provides access to the books on their web site. Forcing me to download an application to download books because the web site doesn’t work properly is inane. The solution is to fix the web site or support the file format that B&N gives me on their branded device.

> 3. … You can redownload the books you purchased at any time using one of the preferred methods (and probably this method in the future) and get an ePub that will work on the device.

Every email B&N sends after buying a book starts by giving a link to download the book from bn.com. Which then gives Mac user a file that cannot be read on the Nook Color and STR. I can redownload that as many time as I want and still not be able to read it.

The email from B&N does list downloading directly to the Nook as an option and it does give the reader software as an option as well. However, again B&N offers the books though the web site and it’s the first way they tell you to get your books. This method gives Mac users books they can’t read on their B&N device.

> The sky isn’t falling, and far more importantly B&N is selling you books you can’t read.

No it’s not. B&N is selling books that cannot be read on their branded devices.

Why is it so hard for people understand that B&N gives books that can’t be read to Mac users. The way I want to get the book isn’t some far fetched system. It’s a valid, supported, and suggested (by B&N) method for accessing your books. Instead of people defending B&N having a broken system why doesn’t B&N fix the issue? Yes there are ways to get around the problem but that doesn’t excuse the fact that there is a problem in the first place and B&N hasn’t cared to address it. Especially since it’s apparently been an on going issue since the Nook Color was released.

OK, for someone running a blog about reading, you’re not doing a good job here.

“Why is it so hard for people understand that B&N gives books that can’t be read to Mac users.”

I clearly indicated I understood this, and went much further and explained why they did. I also pointed out it was likely that this would change, now that the reason for the PDB downloads is no longer valid.

In any event, B&N is NOT SELLING YOU A BOOK YOU CAN’T READ ON THEIR DEVICE. They are selling you a license for the book, which they keep online and allow you download as often as you like. Most of the ways you can download the books result in an ePub, and likely in the (near) future all ways to dowload will result in an ePub. It’s an inconvenience for you and a few others, but it’s not the end of the world. You’re not out any money. You can read the books on your B&N device.

You have a right to complain, but you’re spreading misinformation, even in your reply to me. Again, read carefully before responding.

> OK, for someone running a blog about reading, you’re not doing a good job here.

So, you’ve stepped up your response to personal attacks… For one thing I don’t run this blog and I’m not affiliated with Teleread. I’m an independent third party and this is a republishing (with permission) of an article I wrote on my personal blog (linked at the end of the article).

> “Why is it so hard for people understand that B&N gives books that can’t be read to Mac users.” I clearly indicated I understood this…

How do you you understand that B&N gives books that can’t be read by Mac users when you follow it with saying the exact opposite?

> You have a right to complain, but you’re spreading misinformation, even in your reply to me.

Go to bn.com. Buy the book I listed in the article. Download it on a Mac. Put that file on your Nook Color (since this one is out right now). Tell me how much you enjoy not reading the book. Then email B&N support and don’t get an answer about how to read the book you just bought on the device.

>… likely in the (near) future all ways to dowload will result in an ePub.

The Nook Color can’t read eReader PDB files and have been out for about six months now. “Likely in the (near) future” doesn’t cut it especially when this has been an issue for half a year. I don’t know of an official statement form B&N on the topic but some random person on the internet saying it might, could, probably happen doesn’t give me much faith.

“So, you’ve stepped up your response to personal attacks… For one thing I don’t run this blog and I’m not affiliated with Teleread. I’m an independent third party and this is a republishing (with permission) of an article I wrote on my personal blog (linked at the end of the article).”

Hmm. Let’s see. You responded with “why can’t you understand”. I responded in kind. If you read my post and comprehended it then you’d know that I understood you just fine. If you consider this a personal attack, so be it.

“How do you you understand that B&N gives books that can’t be read by Mac users when you follow it with saying the exact opposite?”

*sigh* I did not follow it with the exact opposite. I explained things pretty clearly. Yes, if you download the book with the web browser on a Mac you’ll get a file that’s incompatible with the B&N reader. THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING AS B&N SELLING YOU A BOOK THAT’S INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE READER. Why not? Because they didn’t sell you that file. They sold you a license. You can download the book again, in any of the ways outlined, and get a file that IS compatible with the reader. Is this a pain? Sure. Is it confusing for folks that don’t understand the technology? Absolutely. You DO have a right to complain. But you WERE NOT SOLD A BOOK THAT DOES NOT WORK ON YOUR DEVICE. YOU ARE NOT OUT ANY MONEY.

“Then email B&N support and don’t get an answer about how to read the book you just bought on the device.”

B&N support is sometimes lacking, at best. I don’t know if I’d bet they don’t have a response to this, however. In any event, there IS A SOLUTION. Download the book with your NOOKcolor (yes, I know *you* refuse to do this, but that’s not anyone’s problem but your own). I don’t mean you have to do this first. I mean you can do it at any point. Downloaded a PDB already? No problem, just download the book using your NOOKcolor now, at no cost, and you’ll get a version of the book that works on the device.

“The Nook Color can’t read eReader PDB files and have been out for about six months now. “Likely in the (near) future” doesn’t cut it especially when this has been an issue for half a year.”

I don’t think it cut it from the very beginning. I clearly indicated I thought this “fix” was a dumb idea, and find it even dumber that it’s not yet reverted to normal. Seriously, I get your complaint. I understand the frustration, and I sympathize. I just won’t stand for the spreading of falsehoods, whether it’s done intentionally or not.

> I don’t think it cut it from the very beginning. I clearly indicated I thought this “fix” was a dumb idea, and find it even dumber that it’s not yet reverted to normal. Seriously, I get your complaint. I understand the frustration, and I sympathize. I just won’t stand for the spreading of falsehoods, whether it’s done intentionally or not.

I’m not spreading falsehoods. I even gave ways around the issue in the article. My point is a regular user following a B&N suggested method for getting their books can easily end up in a situation where they cannot read the book they just purchased. Even trying to ask B&N for help cannot resolve the issue. I had to go to a third party web site to even find out about the work arounds in the first place.

Posters responding to you think they have lost money and B&N has ripped them off. That’s understandable when even this last post, the closest I’ve seen come to the complete truth, still says “where they cannot read the book they just purchased”. They can read the book. More importantly, they can read it on their NOOK. What they can’t do is use the file they downloaded on a browser on the Mac to sideload and read on the NOOK. Bad, but not the same as “they can’t read the book”. The situation is bad enough without scaring your readers into thinking they’ve lost money.

John you make complete sense to me and thank you or your excellent article. This behaviour by B&N, admitted in their response to you, is just another in a long line of arrogant abuse of customers by these big companies.

Redownloading to the Nook-whatever is no different than what has to be done on Amazon. On the K4PC one downloads in mobi/topaz format, and in the various Kindles, in another format. Unless you deDrm them, one can NOT download to K4PC and sideload over to a Kindle and expect to read that ebook. One can download to a PC (and I assume Mac) in the Kindle format for a registered Kindle and sideload it from there – vs downloading it directly on the Kindle – but that version can NOT be read by K4PC.

To much whining about nothing.

> Redownloading to the Nook-whatever is no different than what has to be done on Amazon. On the K4PC one downloads in mobi/topaz format, and in the various Kindles, in another format.

No. This is completely wrong. K4PC uses the same formats as the Kindle. It is Amazon’s DRM that prevents you from reading a file downloaded with K4PC on a Kindle. They lock the file to a specific reader.

> One can download to a PC (and I assume Mac) in the Kindle format for a registered Kindle and sideload it from there.

With B&N, they are giving Mac users files that cannot be sideloaded onto the Nook. B&N gives users instructions for side loading content with every purchase confirmation. When this fails because the files B&N sends to Mac users cannot be read on the Nook, B&N support tells you that you can’t read the book you just bought.

I’m one of the fools with thousands of dollars invested? in pdb ebooks from PeanutPress/ereader/fictionwise.

If they are allowing B&N shoppers to download purchased DRM’d books in multiple formats (pdb and epub), then I’m furious that my books from ereader and fictionwise can’t also be downloaded in both formats.

When the Nook color came out with no pdb support, I thought that it was probably the publishers who wouldn’t allow downloading previously purchased books in the new epub format , but I don’t see how that can be the case if the books from the B&N site are treated differently from the books from the ereader/fictionwise sites.

I do have the ereader android app on my phone, but it’s almost useless. It’s a beta version, and I don’t think it’s being supported any longer; I’ve had it for almost a year, and I’m pretty sure it hasn’t been updated since then. The fictionwise site still shows it as being a beta version. It doesn’t have a sort function, and doesn’t remember what book you’re reading, so every time you open the app you have to page through your entire library to find the book you’re reading.

As a long time ebook reader, with over 2000 ebooks in Secure eReader PDB format, it looks like I won’t be buying a Nook anytime soon. I was used to reading on a small screen (old Palm PDA/smartphones) and thought the original Nook was too bulky for me. I like the new Nooks and Kindles, but for now I’ll have to stick with my gadgets that can still use the old eReader program to read my PDB files.

There are only two eink ereaders that can still read PDB files. The now discontinued Nook and the Ectaco Jetbook Lite. I doubt that any in the future will support it.

Fictionwise is anyway on its last legs, businesswise there seems no sense for B&N to keep it open for much longer.

I’m not sure if this has been covered, but these are my two cents. You can use the Stanza application on a Mac to download protected (Secure) PDB eBooks that you purchased from Fictionwise/eReader. You can then transfer them to the Stanza app on an iPod Touch, iPhone, or iPad via iTunes on the Mac. You can read them on the Mac or on the iPod Touch, iPhone, or iPad. You’ll find a discussion of this at lexcycle.com web site, http://www.lexcycle.com/faq

Unfortunately, you cannot transfer these files to the new nook. I’ve tried everything I can think of as have others. B&N doesn’t seem to care, but at least if you no longer have your Palm device, you can still read your Fictionwise (and eReader) eBooks on some new devices. Hope this helps some of you.

Oops! The Secure eReader files downloaded by Stanza on an iPod Touch, iPhone, or iPad cannot be read on the Mac Stanza application, but only on the iPhone, etc. Sorry, I spoke too soon. But at least you can still read all those eReader and Fictionwise books you bought. Don’t have one of these devices? Buy a used iPod Touch. They’re cheap now, and that’s all you need, really—unless you want a big screen, then buy a 1st gen iPad, they’re cheap now too and good enough for reading eBooks.