Comments on: In B&N’s closure of Fictionwise, Canadian customers lose big http://www.teleread.com/fictionwise/in-bns-closure-of-fictionwise-canadian-customers-lose-big/ News & views on e-books, libraries, publishing and related topics Wed, 22 May 2013 19:41:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Johnny Cobalt http://www.teleread.com/fictionwise/in-bns-closure-of-fictionwise-canadian-customers-lose-big/comment-page-1/#comment-1220338 Johnny Cobalt Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:12:50 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74589#comment-1220338 I find articles (and readers comments) of this nature very useful. They remind me that I owe it to myself not to "over commit" to any one company's products or associated ecosystem. Diversification is an important, and legal, tactic in limiting ones dependency. It makes it easier to swiftly move my future spending away from a company that develops business practices I feel are unreasonable. I find articles (and readers comments) of this nature very useful. They remind me that I owe it to myself not to “over commit” to any one company’s products or associated ecosystem. Diversification is an important, and legal, tactic in limiting ones dependency.

It makes it easier to swiftly move my future spending away from a company that develops business practices I feel are unreasonable.

]]> By: Carl http://www.teleread.com/fictionwise/in-bns-closure-of-fictionwise-canadian-customers-lose-big/comment-page-1/#comment-1220278 Carl Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:01:06 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74589#comment-1220278 I'd add you probably won't even be able to download all 400 books if you wanted. Over half of the books I purchased on Fictionwise in the "Secure eReader" format can no longer be downloaded. They're not even listed on Fictionwise anymore. Doubly screwed I guess. :( I’d add you probably won’t even be able to download all 400 books if you wanted. Over half of the books I purchased on Fictionwise in the “Secure eReader” format can no longer be downloaded. They’re not even listed on Fictionwise anymore. Doubly screwed I guess. :(

]]> By: Alexander Inglis http://www.teleread.com/fictionwise/in-bns-closure-of-fictionwise-canadian-customers-lose-big/comment-page-1/#comment-1220185 Alexander Inglis Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:24:34 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74589#comment-1220185 "Vendor misrepresentations on this point are obviously deliberate." That's a bit of a stretch based on the evidence. I have been a Fictionwise customer. The deal was they were selling me a license (or an "electronic book") that I could read on a device with specific software to "decode" it -- an ereader or a computer. Nothing is changed. I'm not duped. I still have the full library of books/licenses I was sold. They still work exactly as they did the day I purchased them. Now the company is closing for good. That's no effect on me and I don't feel B&N is obligated to replace my existing content with an updated flavour. This is no different than buying content such as music. Just because I bought "Love Me Do" as a 45 in 1964 is no reason the successor to HMV is obligated to give me a copy as an LP, eight-track, cassette, CD, digital download, iTunes, Amazon cloud, stream it for me, etc etc etc. If my 45 copy and 45 player are kaput, I have not been "screwed" by the Beatles and their agents. “Vendor misrepresentations on this point are obviously deliberate.” That’s a bit of a stretch based on the evidence. I have been a Fictionwise customer. The deal was they were selling me a license (or an “electronic book”) that I could read on a device with specific software to “decode” it — an ereader or a computer. Nothing is changed. I’m not duped. I still have the full library of books/licenses I was sold. They still work exactly as they did the day I purchased them. Now the company is closing for good. That’s no effect on me and I don’t feel B&N is obligated to replace my existing content with an updated flavour.

This is no different than buying content such as music. Just because I bought “Love Me Do” as a 45 in 1964 is no reason the successor to HMV is obligated to give me a copy as an LP, eight-track, cassette, CD, digital download, iTunes, Amazon cloud, stream it for me, etc etc etc. If my 45 copy and 45 player are kaput, I have not been “screwed” by the Beatles and their agents.

]]> By: Frank Lowney http://www.teleread.com/fictionwise/in-bns-closure-of-fictionwise-canadian-customers-lose-big/comment-page-1/#comment-1220178 Frank Lowney Sat, 17 Nov 2012 15:05:06 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74589#comment-1220178 I think that the assumption that consumers knew or should have known exactly what they were buying is highly debatable. The average eBook reader may truly not know that they haven't bought a copy of a book and that, in fact, they have only licensed a copy in some potentially transient form. Vendor misrepresentations on this point are obviously deliberate. If dear reader actually knew and understood the terms of sale (TOS), she might well seek out other options. Vendors don't want that so continue to misrepresent the TOS. It's my opinion that it would be appropriate for governments to intervene and require "truth in eBook licensing" as many do with "truth in lending." I think that the assumption that consumers knew or should have known exactly what they were buying is highly debatable. The average eBook reader may truly not know that they haven’t bought a copy of a book and that, in fact, they have only licensed a copy in some potentially transient form. Vendor misrepresentations on this point are obviously deliberate. If dear reader actually knew and understood the terms of sale (TOS), she might well seek out other options. Vendors don’t want that so continue to misrepresent the TOS. It’s my opinion that it would be appropriate for governments to intervene and require “truth in eBook licensing” as many do with “truth in lending.”

]]> By: Alexander Inglis http://www.teleread.com/fictionwise/in-bns-closure-of-fictionwise-canadian-customers-lose-big/comment-page-1/#comment-1220176 Alexander Inglis Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:48:07 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74589#comment-1220176 There are a couple of different issues here. Fictionwise made choices within the confines of the time: selling licenses for content in locked formats designed for specific payback devices. For the consumer, they got what they paid for at the time of purchase. Fictionwise discovered several years ago their model was not feasible and sold to B&N. B&N then took multiple, measured steps to find ways to make the sideline profitable and, obviously, was no more successful than Fictionwise. The result? Closure. The consumer is not screwed. The consumer got everything they were promised. The books they bought/licensed for the readers they were intended for were delivered. They've been available for re-download for years since. Now that the company is closing, B&N is not under any obligation, morally or legally, to convert these to another format. It's nice they are able to do that for their "real" customers in the US and UK. I think you will find the new Canadian copyright legislation does allow you to make a backup of your books -- you just can't break the digital lock to convert to another format. But you never had that right in the first place; it's just now codified in law. Having said that, as pointed out, laws that don't have public buy-in aren't worth a whole lot. So as long as you don't step over the line to trafficking in goods, you're probably golden. There are a couple of different issues here. Fictionwise made choices within the confines of the time: selling licenses for content in locked formats designed for specific payback devices. For the consumer, they got what they paid for at the time of purchase. Fictionwise discovered several years ago their model was not feasible and sold to B&N. B&N then took multiple, measured steps to find ways to make the sideline profitable and, obviously, was no more successful than Fictionwise. The result? Closure.

The consumer is not screwed. The consumer got everything they were promised. The books they bought/licensed for the readers they were intended for were delivered. They’ve been available for re-download for years since. Now that the company is closing, B&N is not under any obligation, morally or legally, to convert these to another format. It’s nice they are able to do that for their “real” customers in the US and UK.

I think you will find the new Canadian copyright legislation does allow you to make a backup of your books — you just can’t break the digital lock to convert to another format. But you never had that right in the first place; it’s just now codified in law. Having said that, as pointed out, laws that don’t have public buy-in aren’t worth a whole lot. So as long as you don’t step over the line to trafficking in goods, you’re probably golden.

]]> By: Sherry http://www.teleread.com/fictionwise/in-bns-closure-of-fictionwise-canadian-customers-lose-big/comment-page-1/#comment-1220163 Sherry Sat, 17 Nov 2012 12:42:03 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74589#comment-1220163 My husband ran into this very problem yesterday when he tried to make sure he had copies of all the books in his account. And about half of them--formerly purchased in secure formats--were simply "not available." I guess he doesn't have to struggle with the moral dilemma of unlocking them or not. Gee, thanks, B&N. My husband ran into this very problem yesterday when he tried to make sure he had copies of all the books in his account. And about half of them–formerly purchased in secure formats–were simply “not available.” I guess he doesn’t have to struggle with the moral dilemma of unlocking them or not. Gee, thanks, B&N.

]]> By: Ed Howdershelt http://www.teleread.com/fictionwise/in-bns-closure-of-fictionwise-canadian-customers-lose-big/comment-page-1/#comment-1220159 Ed Howdershelt Sat, 17 Nov 2012 10:09:14 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74589#comment-1220159 Joanna, marketing is all about controlling access to something in order to charge for it. Probably the only questions in the BN corporate minds were, "Will it be profitable? Yes, eventually. Is it legal? YES!" Wanna bet whether anyone asked, "Is it morally right?" (I'll put a few bucks on 'NO' as that answer. I've watched half a dozen or more e-reader and ebook companies blossom and fade. A few died owing me money. The others died owing other authors money and thankfully didn't carry my books. :) I dislike piracy as much as the next author (there are a few exclusions), but the ugly, clumsy DRM schemes so far presented serve only to annoy customers. Who here can remember when Harry Potter tomes appeared in pirated ebooks before they hit the streets in paper form? Locks only help honest people remain honest. They rarely deter determined thieves. Thieves don't and won't buy what they can steal. That's why I haven't bothered with DRM schemes on my own website sales. Ed Ed Howdershelt - Abintra Press Science Fiction & Semi-Fiction http://www.AbintraPress.com Joanna, marketing is all about controlling access to something in order to charge for it.
Probably the only questions in the BN corporate minds were, “Will it be profitable? Yes, eventually. Is it legal? YES!”

Wanna bet whether anyone asked, “Is it morally right?” (I’ll put a few bucks on ‘NO’ as that answer.

I’ve watched half a dozen or more e-reader and ebook companies blossom and fade.
A few died owing me money. The others died owing other authors money and thankfully didn’t carry my books. :)

I dislike piracy as much as the next author (there are a few exclusions), but the ugly, clumsy DRM schemes so far presented serve only to annoy customers.
Who here can remember when Harry Potter tomes appeared in pirated ebooks before they hit the streets in paper form?

Locks only help honest people remain honest. They rarely deter determined thieves.
Thieves don’t and won’t buy what they can steal.

That’s why I haven’t bothered with DRM schemes on my own website sales.
Ed
Ed Howdershelt – Abintra Press
Science Fiction & Semi-Fiction
http://www.AbintraPress.com

]]> By: Frank Lowney http://www.teleread.com/fictionwise/in-bns-closure-of-fictionwise-canadian-customers-lose-big/comment-page-1/#comment-1220122 Frank Lowney Fri, 16 Nov 2012 21:36:18 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74589#comment-1220122 An unjust law is no law at all. Saint Augustine, Martin Luther et. al. An unjust law is no law at all. Saint Augustine, Martin Luther et. al.

]]> By: RockDaMan http://www.teleread.com/fictionwise/in-bns-closure-of-fictionwise-canadian-customers-lose-big/comment-page-1/#comment-1220120 RockDaMan Fri, 16 Nov 2012 21:28:28 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74589#comment-1220120 Joanna, You're right that it isn't fair. Periods of transition are seldom roundly fair to all, and that's what we're in. The entire world is in a period of transition from paper to digital - one day things will be be made right and we'll look back and laugh at this period, but until we have to abide and make use of the 'tools' that we do have at our disposal. Joanna, You’re right that it isn’t fair. Periods of transition are seldom roundly fair to all, and that’s what we’re in.

The entire world is in a period of transition from paper to digital – one day things will be be made right and we’ll look back and laugh at this period, but until we have to abide and make use of the ‘tools’ that we do have at our disposal.

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