Comments on: Public domain and piracy: Once Upon a Time and my epiphany http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/public-domain-and-piracy-once-upon-a-time-and-my-epiphany/ News & views on e-books, libraries, publishing and related topics Wed, 22 May 2013 00:30:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Marilynn Byerly http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/public-domain-and-piracy-once-upon-a-time-and-my-epiphany/comment-page-1/#comment-1221348 Marilynn Byerly Tue, 27 Nov 2012 16:32:21 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74791#comment-1221348 Maryland Bill, as of now, Amazon pays the author/publisher the same as if the book was "sold" for each rental so they lose nothing. Unfortunately, the lending library agreement has other, more harsh, terms which makes many publishers shy away from agreeing to be part of it. One thing you must understand is that publishing's profit margin is small and the number of people reading doesn't come near the number who listen to music or watch movies/TV. If deals like this suck away even more of the pittance authors make on each book "sale" as well as the number of people "buying" the book, many in the industry will make so little that they will go bankrupt or walk away from writing. Maryland Bill, as of now, Amazon pays the author/publisher the same as if the book was “sold” for each rental so they lose nothing. Unfortunately, the lending library agreement has other, more harsh, terms which makes many publishers shy away from agreeing to be part of it.

One thing you must understand is that publishing’s profit margin is small and the number of people reading doesn’t come near the number who listen to music or watch movies/TV. If deals like this suck away even more of the pittance authors make on each book “sale” as well as the number of people “buying” the book, many in the industry will make so little that they will go bankrupt or walk away from writing.

]]> By: MarylandBill http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/public-domain-and-piracy-once-upon-a-time-and-my-epiphany/comment-page-1/#comment-1221346 MarylandBill Tue, 27 Nov 2012 16:19:42 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74791#comment-1221346 Marilynn, I don't think you quite get how Netflix work if you think the only compensation the rights holders get is the first sale to netflix. What Christ is suggesting here is setting up a for-profit library that doesn't simply buy a book and then lend it, but rather licenses the rights to lend the book and then compensates the rights holders based on a mutually agreed upon formula. If the rights holders are getting almost no profit for their book, then it is because they were poor negotiators, not because the system itself is inherently unworkable. Actually I think the biggest problem is negotiating the rights in the first place; some rights holders might be too greedy for this to work. In the interest to suggest how this might work, lets sketch out a scenario where there was a standard licensing agreement and the monthly rate was the same as netflix ($8). $4 might be taken by the library to cover their costs and to be their profit. The other $4 would go to the rights holders of the books in the library. How that $4 would be divided up could be determined by any one of a number or ways. Perhaps the most logical method is that authors would be compensated based on how many unique checkouts there were for a book over a given period (i.e., a single user might check a book out 3 times to finish it, but it would only count as a single checkout to keep some people from gaming the system). So if an author was very popular and the book represented 10% of all checkouts, they would get 10% of the $4 (well obviously 10% of every $4 in the pool). Anyway, this is hardly a zero recompense game for the authors. Sure the numbers might be relatively small compared to what the author gets if the book is sold in the bookstore, but consider the advantages. 1. People belonging to the service are probably not going to pirate the books. 2. If someone reads a book once and then comes back a year or two later to reread it, the author gets paid again. 3. No issues with first sale doctrine since clearly the book was never sold to the reader. 4. Authors could work directly with the company, self-publishing like with Amazon, and then if someone likes the book enough, they can buy it. In fact now that I think about it, the biggest problem with Amazon's lending library is that it is mostly a marketing tool for Amazon, and does not itself generate revenue that can be used to compensate the authors. Marilynn, I don’t think you quite get how Netflix work if you think the only compensation the rights holders get is the first sale to netflix. What Christ is suggesting here is setting up a for-profit library that doesn’t simply buy a book and then lend it, but rather licenses the rights to lend the book and then compensates the rights holders based on a mutually agreed upon formula. If the rights holders are getting almost no profit for their book, then it is because they were poor negotiators, not because the system itself is inherently unworkable. Actually I think the biggest problem is negotiating the rights in the first place; some rights holders might be too greedy for this to work.

In the interest to suggest how this might work, lets sketch out a scenario where there was a standard licensing agreement and the monthly rate was the same as netflix ($8). $4 might be taken by the library to cover their costs and to be their profit. The other $4 would go to the rights holders of the books in the library. How that $4 would be divided up could be determined by any one of a number or ways.

Perhaps the most logical method is that authors would be compensated based on how many unique checkouts there were for a book over a given period (i.e., a single user might check a book out 3 times to finish it, but it would only count as a single checkout to keep some people from gaming the system). So if an author was very popular and the book represented 10% of all checkouts, they would get 10% of the $4 (well obviously 10% of every $4 in the pool).

Anyway, this is hardly a zero recompense game for the authors. Sure the numbers might be relatively small compared to what the author gets if the book is sold in the bookstore, but consider the advantages. 1. People belonging to the service are probably not going to pirate the books. 2. If someone reads a book once and then comes back a year or two later to reread it, the author gets paid again. 3. No issues with first sale doctrine since clearly the book was never sold to the reader. 4. Authors could work directly with the company, self-publishing like with Amazon, and then if someone likes the book enough, they can buy it.

In fact now that I think about it, the biggest problem with Amazon’s lending library is that it is mostly a marketing tool for Amazon, and does not itself generate revenue that can be used to compensate the authors.

]]> By: Felix Torres http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/public-domain-and-piracy-once-upon-a-time-and-my-epiphany/comment-page-1/#comment-1220467 Felix Torres Tue, 20 Nov 2012 17:54:45 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74791#comment-1220467 If you like ONCE UPON A TIME, you might want to check out the FABLES Graphic Novels from DC. Bill Willingham did the Fairy Tale characters first and, frankly, best. Though the series is starting to lose a bit of steam after 10 years, 120+ monthly issues, several spinoffs, and a beautifully illustrated prose Novel (PETER AND MAX) it is still a fun read. The basic premise there is that the fairy tale characters (and other classic favorites like OZ, Kim, the Arabian Nights, russian myth, etc) all resided in different worlds that were attacked, defeated, and annexed into a cross-dimensional empire of magic. The refugees from those worlds were forced to retreat through a hidden portal to a world with essentially no magic of its own where they could hide and plot a theoretical return to the homelands. 300 years later, they're still there, hidden in plain sight in a series of enclaves in NYC, upstate NY, etc. (Hint: the heroes and villains aren't quite who you'd expect.) Highly recommended. Oh, and Netflix? Definitely worth the $8. So is HULU PLUS, which is more focused on next-day TV and current TV shows. Slightly better HD picture quality on Hulu. (At least via XBOX.) If you like ONCE UPON A TIME, you might want to check out the FABLES Graphic Novels from DC. Bill Willingham did the Fairy Tale characters first and, frankly, best. Though the series is starting to lose a bit of steam after 10 years, 120+ monthly issues, several spinoffs, and a beautifully illustrated prose Novel (PETER AND MAX) it is still a fun read.
The basic premise there is that the fairy tale characters (and other classic favorites like OZ, Kim, the Arabian Nights, russian myth, etc) all resided in different worlds that were attacked, defeated, and annexed into a cross-dimensional empire of magic. The refugees from those worlds were forced to retreat through a hidden portal to a world with essentially no magic of its own where they could hide and plot a theoretical return to the homelands.
300 years later, they’re still there, hidden in plain sight in a series of enclaves in NYC, upstate NY, etc. (Hint: the heroes and villains aren’t quite who you’d expect.)
Highly recommended.

Oh, and Netflix? Definitely worth the $8. So is HULU PLUS, which is more focused on next-day TV and current TV shows. Slightly better HD picture quality on Hulu. (At least via XBOX.)

]]> By: Marilynn Byerly http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/public-domain-and-piracy-once-upon-a-time-and-my-epiphany/comment-page-1/#comment-1220462 Marilynn Byerly Tue, 20 Nov 2012 17:25:58 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74791#comment-1220462 I'm a big fan of ONCE UPON A TIME, too. Nice writing and characters with enough cleverness to amuse me. You should try GRIMM on NBC, too, which uses fairy tales as an inspiration. Now that Disney has bought LucasFilms, I am waiting for Darth Vader to show up on ONCE and say, "Rumpelstiltskin, I am your son." On copyright, stories/plots can't be copyrighted! Not now, not ever. It's the individual presentation of the story that is copyrighted. And, sure, Jiminy Cricket is specifically Disney so it would be a crazy person who would borrow the character, but ONCE would be perfectly fine without him. A smart author could easily create someone who would take the same role so why take the risk? Right now, a Netflixs for books can't happen. I doubt it will ever happen. You only have to see what is happening with ebooks and libraries to see why. Most authors and some publishers don't have a problem with libraries because they are public libraries but a for-profit service that offers almost no recompense for a book beyond the first sale would be the start of a legal WWIII. And, it would be just another way to syphon what little profit is to be made in publishing into someone else's pocket which is what is happening with piracy. I’m a big fan of ONCE UPON A TIME, too. Nice writing and characters with enough cleverness to amuse me. You should try GRIMM on NBC, too, which uses fairy tales as an inspiration.

Now that Disney has bought LucasFilms, I am waiting for Darth Vader to show up on ONCE and say, “Rumpelstiltskin, I am your son.”

On copyright, stories/plots can’t be copyrighted! Not now, not ever. It’s the individual presentation of the story that is copyrighted.

And, sure, Jiminy Cricket is specifically Disney so it would be a crazy person who would borrow the character, but ONCE would be perfectly fine without him. A smart author could easily create someone who would take the same role so why take the risk?

Right now, a Netflixs for books can’t happen. I doubt it will ever happen. You only have to see what is happening with ebooks and libraries to see why. Most authors and some publishers don’t have a problem with libraries because they are public libraries but a for-profit service that offers almost no recompense for a book beyond the first sale would be the start of a legal WWIII.

And, it would be just another way to syphon what little profit is to be made in publishing into someone else’s pocket which is what is happening with piracy.

]]> By: Robert Nagle http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/public-domain-and-piracy-once-upon-a-time-and-my-epiphany/comment-page-1/#comment-1220461 Robert Nagle Tue, 20 Nov 2012 17:11:58 +0000 http://www.teleread.com/?p=74791#comment-1220461 Chris, ironically David Rothman and I agreed in 2009 that Netflix/Roku was too awesome for words and sidestepped a lot of the copyright and piracy issues artfully. Of course, content owners have wised up and charged a higher market price. Lately Netflix has switched bigtime to TV shows to the detriment of movies. My strategy has been to resubscribe to the DVD service for 1-2 months every year or so. I think there's not enough money in ebooks for a Netflix for Ebooks to take shape. Also, I believe netflix negotiated mainly with the big media companies and distributors, whereas for ebooks I think small presses and magazines exert more influence over society than smaller movie companies do. Also, with Netflix: it's not uncommon for individuals to spend 60 hours per month watching Netflix, but it's unclear whether the same could be said about ebooks. Also, a Netflix for ebooks would need to have an offline mode, which implies DRM, file management, syncing, etc. On the plus side though, bandwidth costs for ebooks are substantially lower. Also, Netflix for ebooks would have to cost approximately the same as Netflix or movies -- perhaps even less. Right now, A list magazines like the New Yorker are charging $6 per month for ebooks. Which is just unbelievable (and I say this as someone who generally values the New Yorker). Chris, ironically David Rothman and I agreed in 2009 that Netflix/Roku was too awesome for words and sidestepped a lot of the copyright and piracy issues artfully. Of course, content owners have wised up and charged a higher market price. Lately Netflix has switched bigtime to TV shows to the detriment of movies. My strategy has been to resubscribe to the DVD service for 1-2 months every year or so.

I think there’s not enough money in ebooks for a Netflix for Ebooks to take shape. Also, I believe netflix negotiated mainly with the big media companies and distributors, whereas for ebooks I think small presses and magazines exert more influence over society than smaller movie companies do.

Also, with Netflix: it’s not uncommon for individuals to spend 60 hours per month watching Netflix, but it’s unclear whether the same could be said about ebooks. Also, a Netflix for ebooks would need to have an offline mode, which implies DRM, file management, syncing, etc. On the plus side though, bandwidth costs for ebooks are substantially lower.

Also, Netflix for ebooks would have to cost approximately the same as Netflix or movies — perhaps even less. Right now, A list magazines like the New Yorker are charging $6 per month for ebooks. Which is just unbelievable (and I say this as someone who generally values the New Yorker).

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