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Study suggests 7 in 10 find piracy socially acceptable
March 2, 2011 | 11:26 pm
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By Chris Meadows
TorrentFreak and Techdirt have some discussion over a new study out of Denmark (PDF, in Danish) purporting to show that about 70% of people find unauthorized downloading to be socially acceptable to a greater or lesser extent. (Though three quarters of respondents said it was not all right to sell what you downloaded to friends afterward.) Just over 30% of people rated it at a 1 on a scale of 1 to 10 of acceptability. (15-20% believe it is totally acceptable.)
The fact that 3 out of 10 respondents found downloading to be completely unacceptable has not changed since a similar study done in 1997, which also showed about the same proportion. This seems to suggest that the content industry’s propaganda campaigns against piracy over the last ten years are not having any effect. (Though those in favor would probably argue that they’re all that prevents piracy from becoming completely acceptable.)
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I’m thinking of sayings that involve “carrot vs stick,” “good cop/bad cop” and “attracting more flies with honey,” etc. Maybe if content providers tried to promote the idea that content creators need to be supported–as opposed to screaming at everyone for stealing from them–the public attitude towards piracy might change.
But then again, content providers tend to make every effort to separate themselves from the concept of content creators… they are middlemen who keep their creators under wraps (or on pedestals), and who wants to support that?
Possibly the predicted shift away from production conglomerates and towards small, more responsible shops that put the artists up front (and indie artists going it alone) might engender more sympathy from the public: Most people are more willing to support the “little guy” than the corporate entity.
At any rate, it’s not surprising that the numbers haven’t changed: When there’s no enforcement of whatever laws they have, there’s no incentive to change or consider another viewpoint.
Don’t they often say in these sort of things people may well not tell the truth – so the 70% may well be somewhat higher.
In cases where there may be consequences for telling the truth, sure, people will keep things to themselves. In this case, I don’t think that applies.
Right, if people were going to lie about this, they’d err on the side of the angels—so if anything, it’s the 70% finding piracy acceptable that could be understated.
My only point was: Why lie? There are no negative consequences for admitting you pirate (especially in Denmark), it’s considered socially (and therefore morally) acceptable, and there’s virtually no chance of a legal punishment.
It’s like asking me if I drink. “Sure, I drink.” There’s nothing morally, socially or legally wrong with my drinking, so why bother to say I don’t drink?
Based on that, I’d assume the number of people who’d lie on this particular poll would be very small… any adjustment to the 70% based on dishonest answers is probably well within the range of error of the poll itself.
This is interesting:
“Though three quarters of respondents said it was not all right to sell what you downloaded to friends afterward.”
That suggests people are predictably more willing to be unfair to a stranger (a content creator) than a friend. There’s your Global Village for you.
Public perception of a moral position can be very delicate imho. The fiasco of the music industry that screwed it’s customers blind during the CD period did critical damage to the publics sense of fair play. When that happens I believe that the public develops a perception of being cheated that then spreads and becomes part of a wider folk memory, even for those who never suffered any negative fall out during those time.
This kind of folk memory and damage to a moral action will take a long long time to correct, if ever.
The current replay of that aggressive profiteering market strategy by the big publishers in this eBook market is reinforcing this folk memory of being cheated and is, in my view, ensuring that it will be a permanent public view.
The idea that downloading and copying can be stopped or slowed by law enforcement is now yesterdays discussion. Just a quick review of how the internet works and how the technology works makes that clear.
The independent publishers and self publishing writers are appealing to the pragmatic side of people while tugging gently on their remaining moral ambiguity by offering eBook at transparently fair prices. This gives the public the satisfaction that they do yearn for, of owning a legit product, while transparently charging what is clearly a ‘fair price. And in my view this is the only way forward.
Or not… as my $3.00 non-DRM’d books are pirated regularly.
But no evidence they are downloaded …… or replace your sales.
And you have refused, multiple times, to answer the question of HOW they are ‘pirated.’ If it’s in. Torrent with 5000 other books by better known authors, you’ll have a hard time convincing me that people aren’t looking for their books and not yours. If it’s a lone torrent with only books by you, it would be a more convincing argument.
Even then where is the evidence that it is being downloaded ? Torrent sites use completely fictitious download numbers on their sites to persuade visitors that everyone is downloading. It is impossible to know if a single copy is actually being downloaded.
Howard, I’m legitimately curious where you’ve heard of torrent sites using fictitious download numbers. Do you have a link where I can read more about that? Thanks.
*sigh*
So we’ve at least gotten from “piracy DOESN’T MATTER” to “everyone lies about piracy so statistics DON’T MATTER” and “you don’t have EVIDENCE that they specifically pirated YOUR work”.
keep at it, boys, eventually we’ll get them to admit that piracy does matter and that it really is a problem!
Densityduck, the only reason I mentioned the ‘evidence; thing is because Steven has a habit of coming into threads like this and claiming that because HE gets ‘pirated’ it PROVES that price and DRM don’t matter. I disagree with him on this conclusion; I disagree that piracy is the major problem he thinks it is (I think there are other problems which impact author’s sales much more significantly) and I think that even if he is a rare exception, that doesn’t necessarily disprove the rule automatically. And it especially doesn’t disprove it when he refuses, time and again, to back up his assertions with any sort of concrete information.
@Joanna: As if anyone has “concrete information” about torrent sites and downloads… I don’t see you refuting the other side of the argument for lack of the same data. You’re cherry-picking the data to match your own preconclusions. Stop clouding the issue by demanding verifiable stats from a single person, and look at the big picture.
I’ll point out that, as I’m obviously not the only one whose works are in those torrents, that it really doesn’t matter whether you listen to me or care about my dozen books: Look at the volumes of books in there. What do they tell you… that the whole system works beautifully? That there are no problems? Does removing my books from that pile of torrented books somehow make that pile okay? The books are there, they are in torrent files for people to take without properly paying for them, in clear defiance of copyright. Tell me how that’s not wrong.
You obviously don’t have a problem with piracy. However, you also don’t seem to have a good reason why my books–attractively packaged, with free excerpts available to read before buying, sold at a low price on multiple ebook sites and my own, without DRM, in multiple formats, no geo restrictions, well-reviewed and better quality than most backlist ebooks by major publishers–would end up in a torrent file. As the only reason I’m aware of is “Just because I can, and f**k Steven Lyle Jordan,” I’m eager to hear any other logical reasoning you have, to see if there might be something lacking in my sales model that I can address.
And by “logical reasoning for it,” I don’t mean “What’s the difference? It’s good for you!”, another premise that is only supported by supposition and anecdotal evidence, and is certainly not reflected in my profit line, ie, pirated books aren’t helping me to sell any new books.
Steven, if you really think that I ‘obviously don’t have a problem with piracy’ than you clearly have not been paying attention to any of my posts or articles on this website and elsewhere. I don’t ‘condone’ piracy. I do not download from torrents, personally, and I obtain the content I consume from legitimate channels. I spent over $1000 on ebooks last year!
My point is simply that a) you are never going to stop all piracy, the same way you are never going to stop all shoplifting or using office supplies from work at home or whatever. A portion of these losses is simply the cost of doing business and that’s life in ANY industry and b) if you focus on ‘piracy’ as the big issue, you miss other, even bigger issues such as geographical restrictions, DRM and exorbitant prices which affect the bottom line of authors MORE—and no, the fact that your personal books do not have this problem does not in any way negate the issue they present for the vast majority of commercially popular authors. That’s ALL. I never said I condoned piracy, I never said I supported piracy.
As for why your books are in a torrent, I suspect it’s simply that they were there. The people who seriously torrent (99% of whom likely never even read the books) just collect as much as they can and make it available for the heck of it. I doubt a single one of them is posting a 10,000 book torrent of popular authors plus you and saying to himself ‘I am doing this to screw Steve Jordan.’ If that’s really what you think, than I suspect there is nothing I can say that will contribute anything further to a dialogue with you.
Steven, the reason that your books are turning up in torrents is because, as you said yourself, the current system does not work.
The trouble is that nobody is trying to create a workable system for the digital world. Right now it’s just one big conflict zone and authors like you are essentially caught in a war-zone.
Large corporate content publishers don’t care about morality or ethics or the overall fairness of the system. They only care about maximizing profits. The Publishers decided to take the civil offense of copyright infringement, label it with the ludicrous term “piracy” and push for criminal prosecutions.
So you can thank them for the fact that most citizens have no respect at all for copyright. We don’t have a system of copyright that serves the public interest and deserves respect. I’m sorry that your interests are protected. But, then again, neither are mine.
Don’t forget: Criminal prosecutions (or, at least, their equivalent) were always an option in copyright infringement cases… do it big enough, and you could easily score jail time. The adoption of the word “piracy” is obviously charged, but then, that’s the modus opperandi of all advertisers, lawyers and politicians… and it doesn’t obscure the fact that copyright infringement is going on, and going unpunished.
But I agree: The system doesn’t work; and a major part of the reason is that too many of the public don’t care that the system doesn’t work, because a broken system means they can score free stuff, from major authors and from nobodys like me, without reprisal. Nothing I’ve heard yet contradicts that single, simple fact.
Yes, the corporate entities have severely poisoned the waters. Yet the public has it in their power to force them to clean it up, or go out of business forever… and instead, they’re adding rum to make double-shots out of the poison, then kvetch that the poison’s not as tasty as Coke. How is a system going to get fixed in that environment?
When I spend $10 a seat for a movie ticket and then have to sit through 10 minutes of commercials and 10 minutes of up an coming features and then they throw a propaganda piece about the evils of piracy, I’m ready to walk out of the theater and download everything I can find. The propaganda campaign has had the opposite impact on me. I believe the study.
Why aren’t you driven to boycott or picket the commercial advertisers, or write scathing reviews of the movies previewed before the feature? Why don’t you pick a seat, then hang in the lobby until the movie starts? In fact, knowing in advance that you’re going to be bombarded by all that, why do you go to the movies at all?
Of course, if you told the manager you were being charged too much to sit through all those commercials, he’d calmly tell you that if there were no commercials, he’d have to charge you more to get in. Would your response, then, be to break his window?
Or would you go quietly back to your seat?
There’s a clear double-standard at work here. You accept the commercials, even though you might not use their products, and you don’t feel the need to chew out the theater manager for making you sit through them. (I know I don’t give the manager grief because I sit through a constant series of commercials for TV shows I don’t like, and sodas I don’t drink.) Yet piracy messages are “unacceptable propaganda,” and your response is to go and do something illegal.
When a society can take any action without a fear of negative consequences, they cease to become a society, and they become a mob, acting according to their own selfishness and ignoring the damage they do to the market. Mob sensibilities presently dominate the ebook market, and it’s easy to identify with the mob when the mob makes it possible for you to get things you want without paying for them.
The only long-term results of such a situation are that eventually, the mobs will come to dominate, then figure out how to monetize the market for themselves (check out “A Pirate’s Dilemma,” there are plenty of historical precedents)… or they’ll come to dominate, then move on, and the market will collapse behind them, to eventually be reconstructed by legitimate businesses. Either way, it will drag out the current problems for many more years before anything is settled.
Steven, you’re quite right – the system is broken, and most of the general public doesn’t care. Not because we can “score free stuff”, but because it really isn’t our problem or our responsibility to fix.
I didn’t stand, Luca Brasi-like, behind [your favourite Big Six published author's name HERE] telling them either their signature or their brains would end up on the contract that stipulated I wouldn’t be allowed to purchase their books.
I didn’t whisper seductively into the ears of the CEOs of the Agency Six to convince them that the best way to grow the e-book market was to double prices while eliminating quality control.
I don’t even recall holding any seminars for prospective indie authors and advising them to keep as low a profile as possible, to make it harder for people to find their work, but that if they do maintain a higher profile it should be as negative as possible, to ensure people never look at their work, since there is always a risk that if someone reads your work and enjoys it they might pay you for it, now or in the future.
I didn’t cause these problems, and there really isn’t much I can do to fix them.
Sure there is. You can boycott their products. You can support the products of companies (and indies) that sell quality products in a manner you approve of. And most importantly, you can get others to join you.
All of these companies have one major Achilles’ heel: They depend on you buying their stuff. If you don’t, they go under. If they want your business, and you demand change, you’ll get it (at least to some extent). If you do nothing… and even worse, continue to buy from the companies you don’t like… things will not change.
And I reiterate that the only reason people are doing nothing is… the system as-is gets them free stuff. I bet that if the system as-is resulted in you’re not getting any stuff, or nothing but more expensive stuff, you would consider it your problem and your responsibility to fix, and you and everybody else would be out there, demanding change on a silver platter.
Consumers have more control over these matters than they think. There are more and better alternatives than piracy, vandalism, and bad behavior. Don’t think you’re a lone sheep in a dark forest… you’re part of a herd on the move. Now steer away from that cliff and get going in a constructive direction.
“Sure there is. You can boycott their products. You can support the products of companies (and indies) that sell quality products in a manner you approve of. And most importantly, you can get others to join you.”
Pretty to think so, and in certain circumstances it even works. Still, most people don’t seem to have a big problem with Agency prices or DRM (see the bestselling eBooks at most sites) and folks who have a problem with geo restrictions aren’t buying anyway as they can’t. Most boycotts are ineffective and fail to produce a significant economic impact from those who use/buy or would use/buy a product, but yes it can’t hurt I suppose if you can get enough folks to agree on what the actual problem(s) are.
Brian I do not agree with you at all. There is no evidence most people don’t have a problem with DRM. I believe most do. And many who are suffering from geo limitations are downloading pirated copies.
Most boycotts are successful and have an impact on the business being boycotted.
It is also up to those of us who understand the issues and who object to the price fixing and profiteering to communicate the facts and options to our friends and colleagues.
I have a huge problem with DRM. And I won’t pay $9 for an ebook that was first published in the 1950s and whose author is dead. (Wasp, by Eric Frank Russell). I’m not pirating it – I don’t know how – but tell me that price isn’t set by nothing but greed.
I would support indy writers, but I can’t find any who write what I read. Most of it is urban fantasy, horror, gritty mysteries, erotica or paranormals of some sort or another. I know those are very popular genres, but it’s not what I read.
So most of my ebook reading are classics, or books that I can get for a reasonable price ($5 or $6, DRM-free from Baen).
What I don’t understand is, if a small company like Baen can afford to even give away books free, and charge reasonable prices for their other books, why can’t the Agency 6 do so too? (I’ll bet the Agency 6 just *hate* Baen.)
@Howard, most folks on this site or say MobileRead hate DRM. Most people in general don’t even know what it is or how it affects them. I agree that some folks running into geo restrictions are pirating as I said they aren’t buying anyway because they can’t.
Statistically most boycotts fail, because they simply don’t get enough support. IF enough folks can be convinced to forgo books from favorite authors or to buy them used thus denying the publisher income then a boycott could/would work, but most folks I’ve run into don’t have the desire to go that far.