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	<title>Comments on: SJB creates/adopts a new ePub logo</title>
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	<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/</link>
	<description>News &#38; views on e-books, libraries, publishing and related topics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:55:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Michael Pastore</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/comment-page-1/#comment-1145014</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Pastore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/?p=28627#comment-1145014</guid>
		<description>I agree: it is a gorgeous design.

A few years ago I was looking at some ebook book covers, and a handful stood out as exceptional. &quot;Who did these?&quot; I wondered. ... It was Steve Jordan. He is immensely talented.

I would like to see the letters EPUB somehow integrated into the design. One day, EPUB may become famous enough, like Paris Hilton and PDF, so that the name will not be necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree: it is a gorgeous design.</p>
<p>A few years ago I was looking at some ebook book covers, and a handful stood out as exceptional. &#8220;Who did these?&#8221; I wondered. &#8230; It was Steve Jordan. He is immensely talented.</p>
<p>I would like to see the letters EPUB somehow integrated into the design. One day, EPUB may become famous enough, like Paris Hilton and PDF, so that the name will not be necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Deanna</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/comment-page-1/#comment-1145008</link>
		<dc:creator>Deanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/?p=28627#comment-1145008</guid>
		<description>I think it a beautiful logo and wish it could be adopted forthwith.
d</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it a beautiful logo and wish it could be adopted forthwith.<br />
d</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/comment-page-1/#comment-1144980</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/?p=28627#comment-1144980</guid>
		<description>Point taken.  Possibly a set of white dots embedded in the body of the circle... one for version 1, two for version 2, etc, would provide that detail while keeping the design simple and cross-culturally understandable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point taken.  Possibly a set of white dots embedded in the body of the circle&#8230; one for version 1, two for version 2, etc, would provide that detail while keeping the design simple and cross-culturally understandable.</p>
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		<title>By: Garson O'Toole</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/comment-page-1/#comment-1144979</link>
		<dc:creator>Garson O'Toole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/?p=28627#comment-1144979</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the response. First, I agree that the overall visual design of a logo is of primary importance, and I like the style of the logo above.

Second, if there is a new version of ePub then I hope it will be backwards compatible with previous version(s). But I would argue that a version number should still be depicted in the logo in either numeric or symbolic form.

Suppose a consumer has an ebook reader that can read ePub ver 1.0, and he or she visits an ebook store and selects an ebook formatted in ePub ver 2.0. Suppose further that the ebook reader cannot handle ebooks formatted in version 2.0. The consumer would probably be very aggravated if the only guide during purchase was a misleading ePub logo that did not discriminate between versions.

I agree that version numbers can be confusing. Also, they can be ugly when slapped on to an elegant logo design. Yet, the omission of version numbers can lead to even greater confusions. It might be possible to construct a logo that gracefully allows for variations reflecting version numbers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the response. First, I agree that the overall visual design of a logo is of primary importance, and I like the style of the logo above.</p>
<p>Second, if there is a new version of ePub then I hope it will be backwards compatible with previous version(s). But I would argue that a version number should still be depicted in the logo in either numeric or symbolic form.</p>
<p>Suppose a consumer has an ebook reader that can read ePub ver 1.0, and he or she visits an ebook store and selects an ebook formatted in ePub ver 2.0. Suppose further that the ebook reader cannot handle ebooks formatted in version 2.0. The consumer would probably be very aggravated if the only guide during purchase was a misleading ePub logo that did not discriminate between versions.</p>
<p>I agree that version numbers can be confusing. Also, they can be ugly when slapped on to an elegant logo design. Yet, the omission of version numbers can lead to even greater confusions. It might be possible to construct a logo that gracefully allows for variations reflecting version numbers.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/comment-page-1/#comment-1144972</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/?p=28627#comment-1144972</guid>
		<description>I suppose words and/or letters in logos can go either way.  However, the logos you mention are also accompanied by symbols, and/or heavily stylized as to be very distinctive and recognizable, essentially turning the words into a design logo.  It is the visual design, not the letters, that are most recognizable across the largest number of groups/cultures, and that should be the emphasis of any logo effort.

I&#039;d hope that including version numbers wouldn&#039;t be an issue here, not to mention the fact that they can be confusing.  With any luck, most OEB-reading hardware would be backwards-compatible with earlier but compliant OEB versions... IOW, any future tweaks should hopefully be additive, and not making any fundamental changes to the underlying format.  (Otherwise, you have a new format, don&#039;t you?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose words and/or letters in logos can go either way.  However, the logos you mention are also accompanied by symbols, and/or heavily stylized as to be very distinctive and recognizable, essentially turning the words into a design logo.  It is the visual design, not the letters, that are most recognizable across the largest number of groups/cultures, and that should be the emphasis of any logo effort.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d hope that including version numbers wouldn&#8217;t be an issue here, not to mention the fact that they can be confusing.  With any luck, most OEB-reading hardware would be backwards-compatible with earlier but compliant OEB versions&#8230; IOW, any future tweaks should hopefully be additive, and not making any fundamental changes to the underlying format.  (Otherwise, you have a new format, don&#8217;t you?)</p>
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		<title>By: Garson O'Toole</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/comment-page-1/#comment-1144970</link>
		<dc:creator>Garson O'Toole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/?p=28627#comment-1144970</guid>
		<description>Thanks to Steve Jordan for his creative work on a possible logo for ePub.

There is a precedent for letters and words appearing in successful technological logos, e.g., the DVD logo has the letters DVD and the Blu-Ray logo says Blu-Ray Disc. The USB logo has the letters USB and the word &quot;CERTIFIED&quot;. The words &quot;HI-SPEED&quot; and &quot;On-The-Go&quot; are incorporated in the USB logo to designate variant versions of the base standard.

More controversially perhaps I think that a version number should be included in the ePub logo, because I do not think that the current standard is the final one. The ePub standard will evolve and the logo should also allow for a natural pathway of change. If the same logo is used for multiple versions of a standard then it can cause confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to Steve Jordan for his creative work on a possible logo for ePub.</p>
<p>There is a precedent for letters and words appearing in successful technological logos, e.g., the DVD logo has the letters DVD and the Blu-Ray logo says Blu-Ray Disc. The USB logo has the letters USB and the word &#8220;CERTIFIED&#8221;. The words &#8220;HI-SPEED&#8221; and &#8220;On-The-Go&#8221; are incorporated in the USB logo to designate variant versions of the base standard.</p>
<p>More controversially perhaps I think that a version number should be included in the ePub logo, because I do not think that the current standard is the final one. The ePub standard will evolve and the logo should also allow for a natural pathway of change. If the same logo is used for multiple versions of a standard then it can cause confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/comment-page-1/#comment-1144962</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 02:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/?p=28627#comment-1144962</guid>
		<description>Guys,
When I offered to forego my rights to control of the symbol, that was because OEB is not my standard.  It is that of the IDPF, and it is they who should control the very things you specify (I agree, the logo should only be placed upon products that meet the specifications, period).

@David: There&#039;s no reason why the word &quot;ePub&quot; couldn&#039;t be added to the logo, most likely outside the logo itself... but like other logos (Adobe reader, Mobipocket, eReader, MS Reader), I believe it is unnecessary, and after a time, the text could be removed.  

Personally, I am trying to get into the habit of referring to the format as Open E-Book, or OEB... that, not ePub, is the actual name.  After all, nobody refers to PRC files... they say Mobipocket.  That is also why I wouldn&#039;t want to attach &quot;ePub&quot; to the logo, as that is not its name.  But that&#039;s just me, and if no one else can wrap their heads around that, that&#039;s fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys,<br />
When I offered to forego my rights to control of the symbol, that was because OEB is not my standard.  It is that of the IDPF, and it is they who should control the very things you specify (I agree, the logo should only be placed upon products that meet the specifications, period).</p>
<p>@David: There&#8217;s no reason why the word &#8220;ePub&#8221; couldn&#8217;t be added to the logo, most likely outside the logo itself&#8230; but like other logos (Adobe reader, Mobipocket, eReader, MS Reader), I believe it is unnecessary, and after a time, the text could be removed.  </p>
<p>Personally, I am trying to get into the habit of referring to the format as Open E-Book, or OEB&#8230; that, not ePub, is the actual name.  After all, nobody refers to PRC files&#8230; they say Mobipocket.  That is also why I wouldn&#8217;t want to attach &#8220;ePub&#8221; to the logo, as that is not its name.  But that&#8217;s just me, and if no one else can wrap their heads around that, that&#8217;s fine.</p>
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		<title>By: David Rothman</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/comment-page-1/#comment-1144952</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rothman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/?p=28627#comment-1144952</guid>
		<description>Steve, it&#039;s great to see your contribution to the ePub logo efforts. Is it possible the logo could actually show &quot;ePub&quot; after all? We don&#039;t want to leave consumers guessing. Even outside the U.S., they&#039;ll get the general idea; many people overseas are accustomed to things like this. By the way, I&#039;m glad you use &quot;ePub&quot; rather than EPUB, which is too loud. 

As for the trademark angle, I fervently &lt;em&gt;want&lt;/em&gt; the IDPF to retain control &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; enforce the standards. Martin, Ted and Paul are right on the &quot;mark.&quot;

Thanks,
David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, it&#8217;s great to see your contribution to the ePub logo efforts. Is it possible the logo could actually show &#8220;ePub&#8221; after all? We don&#8217;t want to leave consumers guessing. Even outside the U.S., they&#8217;ll get the general idea; many people overseas are accustomed to things like this. By the way, I&#8217;m glad you use &#8220;ePub&#8221; rather than EPUB, which is too loud. </p>
<p>As for the trademark angle, I fervently <em>want</em> the IDPF to retain control <em>and</em> enforce the standards. Martin, Ted and Paul are right on the &#8220;mark.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
David</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Biba</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/comment-page-1/#comment-1144949</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Biba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/?p=28627#comment-1144949</guid>
		<description>Martin is 100% correct.  One of the most important uses of a trademark is to enforce standards.  When you license the mark you have to agree that your product will meet the specified mark&#039;s standards.  When I used to do trademark licenses the most important part of the document was the appendix that defined exactly what standards, specifications, etc. the product had to meet before it would be allowed to use the mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin is 100% correct.  One of the most important uses of a trademark is to enforce standards.  When you license the mark you have to agree that your product will meet the specified mark&#8217;s standards.  When I used to do trademark licenses the most important part of the document was the appendix that defined exactly what standards, specifications, etc. the product had to meet before it would be allowed to use the mark.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Treanor</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/comment-page-1/#comment-1144948</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Treanor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/?p=28627#comment-1144948</guid>
		<description>Martin,

Good point. Truth spoken like a experienced veteran technologist. That is the same issue that has bothered me about the growing ebook industry where 800 lb gorillas like to improve on industry standards with their flavor of proprietary tweaks, resulting in reduced customer usability. As an industry, we need to grow up and adopt lessons learned and best practices that are proven from other industries. 

I am all for the IDPF initiating an open contest to select an ePub logo that will further establish ePub as THE industry standard that readers can make buy decisions with confidence and comfort. 

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin,</p>
<p>Good point. Truth spoken like a experienced veteran technologist. That is the same issue that has bothered me about the growing ebook industry where 800 lb gorillas like to improve on industry standards with their flavor of proprietary tweaks, resulting in reduced customer usability. As an industry, we need to grow up and adopt lessons learned and best practices that are proven from other industries. </p>
<p>I am all for the IDPF initiating an open contest to select an ePub logo that will further establish ePub as THE industry standard that readers can make buy decisions with confidence and comfort. </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/epub/sjb-createsadopts-a-new-epub-logo/comment-page-1/#comment-1144946</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/?p=28627#comment-1144946</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I would grant its use as a worldwide symbol, abandoning all demands to rights or restrictions to the design&quot;.&lt;/i&gt;

Don&#039;t: that would make it useless.

Note that an important reason why CDs worked as a music carrier was that Philips owned the trademark, made it valuable, and restricted its use &lt;b&gt;only&lt;/b&gt; to discs and players that conformed to the standards that they had laid down. Thus the consumer knew that any disc with the Compact Disc Digital Audio logo would play on any device with the Compact Disc Digital Audio logo, and that (for example) any copy-protection that made CDs unplayable on some machines meant that those discs could not carry the logo.

If this symbol becomes valuable, it should similarly guarantee that any symbol-marked file should be playable on any symbol-marked player. This will prevent anyone from attempting an &quot;embrace and extend&quot; strategy to make the format proprietary, and it will prevent the growth of dialects of ePub that would fragment the market.

For example, imagine that Amazon decide to bundle an automated ePub-to-Mobipocket converter with the Kindle, but do not upgrade the capabilities of the Mobipocket display engine. This means (as is well documented) that only some ePub files will display correctly on the Kindle. If you place no restrictions on your trademark&#039;s use, Amazon will be able to use it on their devices, and their market clout may mean that ePub no longer means what the IDPF defined it to mean but what one large corporation has decided it shall mean.

Or suppose that Adobe add a facility to their reader that everyone has been asking for (footnotes, perhaps?) and some publishers start creating ePub files with that facility, which cannot be read on devices that simply conform to the ePub standard. In that case, if you do not control the use of your symbol, standards-conforming readers will be squeezed out of the market because they cannot read all trademarked files; and incidentally the trademark will become worthless because it will no longer be a guarantee of interoperability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I would grant its use as a worldwide symbol, abandoning all demands to rights or restrictions to the design&#8221;.</i></p>
<p>Don&#8217;t: that would make it useless.</p>
<p>Note that an important reason why CDs worked as a music carrier was that Philips owned the trademark, made it valuable, and restricted its use <b>only</b> to discs and players that conformed to the standards that they had laid down. Thus the consumer knew that any disc with the Compact Disc Digital Audio logo would play on any device with the Compact Disc Digital Audio logo, and that (for example) any copy-protection that made CDs unplayable on some machines meant that those discs could not carry the logo.</p>
<p>If this symbol becomes valuable, it should similarly guarantee that any symbol-marked file should be playable on any symbol-marked player. This will prevent anyone from attempting an &#8220;embrace and extend&#8221; strategy to make the format proprietary, and it will prevent the growth of dialects of ePub that would fragment the market.</p>
<p>For example, imagine that Amazon decide to bundle an automated ePub-to-Mobipocket converter with the Kindle, but do not upgrade the capabilities of the Mobipocket display engine. This means (as is well documented) that only some ePub files will display correctly on the Kindle. If you place no restrictions on your trademark&#8217;s use, Amazon will be able to use it on their devices, and their market clout may mean that ePub no longer means what the IDPF defined it to mean but what one large corporation has decided it shall mean.</p>
<p>Or suppose that Adobe add a facility to their reader that everyone has been asking for (footnotes, perhaps?) and some publishers start creating ePub files with that facility, which cannot be read on devices that simply conform to the ePub standard. In that case, if you do not control the use of your symbol, standards-conforming readers will be squeezed out of the market because they cannot read all trademarked files; and incidentally the trademark will become worthless because it will no longer be a guarantee of interoperability.</p>
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