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	<title>Comments on: Ficbot meets the Reader cop</title>
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	<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/</link>
	<description>News &#38; views on e-books, libraries, publishing and related topics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:09:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Spider Mattheson</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027854</link>
		<dc:creator>Spider Mattheson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 01:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027854</guid>
		<description>This may be a work of fiction but it is not unbelievable.  If you&#039;re familiar with ACTA then you know the lengths government is willing to go to in order to ensure people are not violating copyright.  Or at the very least, that people are frightened to violate copyright.  And as the story points out, trying to make sure people aren&#039;t violating copyright isn&#039;t such an easy task without wrongfully accusing innocent people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may be a work of fiction but it is not unbelievable.  If you&#8217;re familiar with ACTA then you know the lengths government is willing to go to in order to ensure people are not violating copyright.  Or at the very least, that people are frightened to violate copyright.  And as the story points out, trying to make sure people aren&#8217;t violating copyright isn&#8217;t such an easy task without wrongfully accusing innocent people.</p>
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		<title>By: HeavyG</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027764</link>
		<dc:creator>HeavyG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027764</guid>
		<description>Jack Tingle says:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;3) As a result, Amazon, Sony, and a host of others have not made a sale.&quot;&lt;/I&gt;

And I, along with hundreds of thousands of others, have decided that the advantages &amp; tradeoffs of purchasing books for our respective readers are acceptable. Not ideal mind you, but acceptable.

To each his own eh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack Tingle says:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;3) As a result, Amazon, Sony, and a host of others have not made a sale.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>And I, along with hundreds of thousands of others, have decided that the advantages &amp; tradeoffs of purchasing books for our respective readers are acceptable. Not ideal mind you, but acceptable.</p>
<p>To each his own eh.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Tingle</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027743</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Tingle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027743</guid>
		<description>1) If it has DRM on it, I don&#039;t buy it electronically,
2) If I can&#039;t read it on multiple platforms, I don&#039;t buy it electronically, and
3) As a result, Amazon, Sony, and a host of others have not made a sale. PDAs (which I own anyway) work just fine for reading.

One of these decades, someone will wise up and I&#039;ll buy one of their readers. Until then, paper is a fine option, and I&#039;m $250-$500 richer.

Regards,
Jack Tingle</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) If it has DRM on it, I don&#8217;t buy it electronically,<br />
2) If I can&#8217;t read it on multiple platforms, I don&#8217;t buy it electronically, and<br />
3) As a result, Amazon, Sony, and a host of others have not made a sale. PDAs (which I own anyway) work just fine for reading.</p>
<p>One of these decades, someone will wise up and I&#8217;ll buy one of their readers. Until then, paper is a fine option, and I&#8217;m $250-$500 richer.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Jack Tingle</p>
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		<title>By: Felix Torres</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027716</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix Torres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027716</guid>
		<description>Paul Durrant Says: 
March 27th, 2009 at 12:40 pm 
Felix: The amusing story was about the Sony Reader. I mentioned Amazon because what’s described in the story could actually happen, now, on the Kindle. Amazon wouldn’t need to send around the inspectors, they could just take a peek over the network.

And it’s not really to do with DRM. It’s to do with privacy.

---------------------------------------------

As for the fiction being about privacy, not drm; I&#039;d beg to differ. As structured, the joke (I assume it is intended humorously) is about how use of DRM invariably leads to policing DRM which invariably leads to invasion of privacy. I disagree with the proposition and I disagree with the approach.

I also doubt that anybody reading this exchange truly has any real privacy in their life.
Do you buy only with cash? Or do you have checking accounts, credit cards, a credit history?
Do you buy anything from the Sony ebook store?
Or any online stone?
If any of those are true, there are data miners and aggregators that have you in their banks. And they know way more about you than you&#039;d be comfortable with.

THe reason I focused on Amazon is because they *are* the whipping boys dujour (used to be Microsoft) and because they (very openly) do datamine everything their customers do. If you don&#039;t want them to know about you, the only way to avoid it is not to do business with them.

I do.
And I long ago know they know more about my tastes in music, movies, and books than my mother does.  So does my bank, my credit-card issuer, my insurance company, and the federal government.

What those organizations and entities *use* that information for is what matters. The government uses it to make sure I pay my taxes. The insurer uses it to set my rates. The credit card people to constantly raise my limit hoping I&#039;ll actually carry a balance. (Yeah, right!)

And Amazon uses it to try to sell me stuff.

That&#039;s life in the age of the internet.
If it wasn&#039;t comfortable with it, I&#039;d live in a rural shack in upstate Montana.
The DRM debate is a whole &#039;nother can of worms, of course.
But the simple reality is everything has a price on you don&#039;t always see it upfront. But its there. TINSTAAFL!
Life is a Red Queen&#039;s race; we adapt or we perish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul Durrant Says:<br />
March 27th, 2009 at 12:40 pm<br />
Felix: The amusing story was about the Sony Reader. I mentioned Amazon because what’s described in the story could actually happen, now, on the Kindle. Amazon wouldn’t need to send around the inspectors, they could just take a peek over the network.</p>
<p>And it’s not really to do with DRM. It’s to do with privacy.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>As for the fiction being about privacy, not drm; I&#8217;d beg to differ. As structured, the joke (I assume it is intended humorously) is about how use of DRM invariably leads to policing DRM which invariably leads to invasion of privacy. I disagree with the proposition and I disagree with the approach.</p>
<p>I also doubt that anybody reading this exchange truly has any real privacy in their life.<br />
Do you buy only with cash? Or do you have checking accounts, credit cards, a credit history?<br />
Do you buy anything from the Sony ebook store?<br />
Or any online stone?<br />
If any of those are true, there are data miners and aggregators that have you in their banks. And they know way more about you than you&#8217;d be comfortable with.</p>
<p>THe reason I focused on Amazon is because they *are* the whipping boys dujour (used to be Microsoft) and because they (very openly) do datamine everything their customers do. If you don&#8217;t want them to know about you, the only way to avoid it is not to do business with them.</p>
<p>I do.<br />
And I long ago know they know more about my tastes in music, movies, and books than my mother does.  So does my bank, my credit-card issuer, my insurance company, and the federal government.</p>
<p>What those organizations and entities *use* that information for is what matters. The government uses it to make sure I pay my taxes. The insurer uses it to set my rates. The credit card people to constantly raise my limit hoping I&#8217;ll actually carry a balance. (Yeah, right!)</p>
<p>And Amazon uses it to try to sell me stuff.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s life in the age of the internet.<br />
If it wasn&#8217;t comfortable with it, I&#8217;d live in a rural shack in upstate Montana.<br />
The DRM debate is a whole &#8216;nother can of worms, of course.<br />
But the simple reality is everything has a price on you don&#8217;t always see it upfront. But its there. TINSTAAFL!<br />
Life is a Red Queen&#8217;s race; we adapt or we perish.</p>
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		<title>By: Felix Torres</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027710</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix Torres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027710</guid>
		<description>Christopher Davis Says: 
March 27th, 2009 at 9:22 am 
Felix: That’s great, until there’s a book you can only buy electronically in Kindle format. Then you buy something else, but can’t actually get the content you want except on paper, by cracking the Kindle DRM, or by straight-up piracy.

--------------------------------------------

Which is exactly how things were before there was a Kindle and exactly how they will be *after* there ceases to be one. 
Kindle is an option, not a mandate.

Look, my point isn&#039;t that DRM can&#039;t be debated, but that it matters *how* its debated. Inventing fanciful scenarios presenting extreme situations as parables may be great for amusement purposes but they can be counterproductive to the &quot;Cause&quot;. 
I&#039;m not in the publishing business so none of this hits me personally any further than impacting what I can buy and how I can buy it. But I have been around the block a time or two and I remember similar debates and crusades and in every case the true believers ended up poisoning the well among the mainstream precisely by exagerating and over-emphasizing the benefits/evils of what they were promoting/countering. All ended up losing, not because of the merits of the cause but because of their absolutist arguments and the tactics they used to promote them.
Demonizing the opposition is extremely high-risk because all they have to do is act halfway-reasonable to deflect the attacks. If the debbate over ebook DRM is going to devolve into pretending that the promoters are either stupid or evil or both, the cause is already lost because they are neither.
If the debate is going to be &quot;zero DRM or bust&quot; then the debate is over; DRM is *not* going away. There will always be a very real, very rational use for DRM&#039;ed ebooks.
The proper terms of debate is what kind of DRM and when.
Anything else is sound and fury and very very dangerous to the cause itself.
Think on it.
&quot;Moderation in all things.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher Davis Says:<br />
March 27th, 2009 at 9:22 am<br />
Felix: That’s great, until there’s a book you can only buy electronically in Kindle format. Then you buy something else, but can’t actually get the content you want except on paper, by cracking the Kindle DRM, or by straight-up piracy.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Which is exactly how things were before there was a Kindle and exactly how they will be *after* there ceases to be one.<br />
Kindle is an option, not a mandate.</p>
<p>Look, my point isn&#8217;t that DRM can&#8217;t be debated, but that it matters *how* its debated. Inventing fanciful scenarios presenting extreme situations as parables may be great for amusement purposes but they can be counterproductive to the &#8220;Cause&#8221;.<br />
I&#8217;m not in the publishing business so none of this hits me personally any further than impacting what I can buy and how I can buy it. But I have been around the block a time or two and I remember similar debates and crusades and in every case the true believers ended up poisoning the well among the mainstream precisely by exagerating and over-emphasizing the benefits/evils of what they were promoting/countering. All ended up losing, not because of the merits of the cause but because of their absolutist arguments and the tactics they used to promote them.<br />
Demonizing the opposition is extremely high-risk because all they have to do is act halfway-reasonable to deflect the attacks. If the debbate over ebook DRM is going to devolve into pretending that the promoters are either stupid or evil or both, the cause is already lost because they are neither.<br />
If the debate is going to be &#8220;zero DRM or bust&#8221; then the debate is over; DRM is *not* going away. There will always be a very real, very rational use for DRM&#8217;ed ebooks.<br />
The proper terms of debate is what kind of DRM and when.<br />
Anything else is sound and fury and very very dangerous to the cause itself.<br />
Think on it.<br />
&#8220;Moderation in all things.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Durrant</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027706</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Durrant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027706</guid>
		<description>Felix: The amusing story was about the Sony Reader. I mentioned Amazon because what&#039;s described in the story could actually happen, now, on the Kindle. Amazon wouldn&#039;t need to send around the inspectors, they could just take a peek over the network.

And it&#039;s not really to do with DRM. It&#039;s to do with privacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Felix: The amusing story was about the Sony Reader. I mentioned Amazon because what&#8217;s described in the story could actually happen, now, on the Kindle. Amazon wouldn&#8217;t need to send around the inspectors, they could just take a peek over the network.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s not really to do with DRM. It&#8217;s to do with privacy.</p>
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		<title>By: Debra Hyde</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027693</link>
		<dc:creator>Debra Hyde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027693</guid>
		<description>Nice didactic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice didactic.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Davis</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027650</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027650</guid>
		<description>Felix: That&#039;s great, until there&#039;s a book you can only buy electronically in Kindle format. Then you buy something else, but can&#039;t actually get the content you want except on paper, by cracking the Kindle DRM, or by straight-up piracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Felix: That&#8217;s great, until there&#8217;s a book you can only buy electronically in Kindle format. Then you buy something else, but can&#8217;t actually get the content you want except on paper, by cracking the Kindle DRM, or by straight-up piracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Felix Torres</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027631</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix Torres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027631</guid>
		<description>You know, folks...
We get it; DRM is bad.
But on the other hand...
Amazon doesn&#039;t *force* anybody to buy their product.
Don&#039;t like DRM? Don&#039;t like Kindle? Buy something else; buy a Cybook, a Hanlin clone, an IPhone, whatever. 
There is a not-so-fine line between educating and ranting and I see a lot of stuff trending to the latter. Amusing or not.
Howzabout giving it a rest?
Preaching to the choir too loudly tends to scare passersby, you know...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, folks&#8230;<br />
We get it; DRM is bad.<br />
But on the other hand&#8230;<br />
Amazon doesn&#8217;t *force* anybody to buy their product.<br />
Don&#8217;t like DRM? Don&#8217;t like Kindle? Buy something else; buy a Cybook, a Hanlin clone, an IPhone, whatever.<br />
There is a not-so-fine line between educating and ranting and I see a lot of stuff trending to the latter. Amusing or not.<br />
Howzabout giving it a rest?<br />
Preaching to the choir too loudly tends to scare passersby, you know&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Paul Durrant</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027475</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Durrant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027475</guid>
		<description>Of course, Amazon can do this now to your Kindle remotely over whispernet. And that&#039;s not a story.

I&#039;m not saying that they /are/ doing this. Just that they could if they wanted to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, Amazon can do this now to your Kindle remotely over whispernet. And that&#8217;s not a story.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that they /are/ doing this. Just that they could if they wanted to.</p>
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		<title>By: David Rothman</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027429</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rothman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 08:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027429</guid>
		<description>Of course, Robert. And a funny one at that. - David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, Robert. And a funny one at that. &#8211; David</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nagle</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.com/drm/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/comment-page-1/#comment-1027388</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 07:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/2009/03/27/ficbot-meets-the-reader-cop/#comment-1027388</guid>
		<description>What a fascinating and yet unbelievable  story! This is a work of fiction, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a fascinating and yet unbelievable  story! This is a work of fiction, right?</p>
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