Comments on: Talking to pirates: Can e-publishers learn from a game developer’s dialogue? http://www.teleread.com/drm/talking-to-pirates/ News & views on e-books, libraries, publishing and related topics Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:24:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Mike Cane http://www.teleread.com/drm/talking-to-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-877158 Mike Cane Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:01:46 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=11822#comment-877158 >>>Anyway… soundtrack price vs DVD price is about perceived value. The soundtrack in stereo playable format is basically just worth more (to the consumer) than the movie itself, clearly You must be young. CD soundtracks prices are outrageous. I used to buy them pre-CD in LP format. They were *never* at gouge price points. >>>Anyway… soundtrack price vs DVD price is about perceived value. The soundtrack in stereo playable format is basically just worth more (to the consumer) than the movie itself, clearly

You must be young. CD soundtracks prices are outrageous. I used to buy them pre-CD in LP format. They were *never* at gouge price points.

]]> By: Robin http://www.teleread.com/drm/talking-to-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-876865 Robin Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:00:54 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=11822#comment-876865 One day a gardener decided to develop a few new types of flowers. Once she had a few that she thought were pretty, she went to a Botanical Garden and offered to sell her new flowers. The Botanical Garden said sure, we'll put on a display, and charge people to come see. And we can also sell the flower seeds to people who like them - and this they did, and made lots of money. But they said to the people who bought the flowers "you can never give any new seeds away or sell them to anyone else". But some of the seed buyers grew new flowers, and they soon had lots of spare seeds, and decided to pass them on, because hey - they had so many just sitting around. And soon wild versions of the flowers were growing all over the place, and some people picked them and put them in their gardens, as they were just growing there freely. But the Botanical Garden came along and said "Hey, you can't grow those flowers! How can we make money if you do that? And why would any gardener ever develop and new type of flowers if they can't make money from it? If you keep this up soon the world will be drab and boring because nobody will make new flower types." And then Monsanto came along with GeRM (Genetic Rights Management). Anyway... soundtrack price vs DVD price is about perceived value. The soundtrack in stereo playable format is basically just worth more (to the consumer) than the movie itself, clearly. Does this make pirating the DVD right? Is stealing a $40 shirt from a store OK just because it only cost 5 cents to make in Indonesia? One day a gardener decided to develop a few new types of flowers. Once she had a few that she thought were pretty, she went to a Botanical Garden and offered to sell her new flowers. The Botanical Garden said sure, we’ll put on a display, and charge people to come see. And we can also sell the flower seeds to people who like them – and this they did, and made lots of money. But they said to the people who bought the flowers “you can never give any new seeds away or sell them to anyone else”.

But some of the seed buyers grew new flowers, and they soon had lots of spare seeds, and decided to pass them on, because hey – they had so many just sitting around. And soon wild versions of the flowers were growing all over the place, and some people picked them and put them in their gardens, as they were just growing there freely.

But the Botanical Garden came along and said “Hey, you can’t grow those flowers! How can we make money if you do that? And why would any gardener ever develop and new type of flowers if they can’t make money from it? If you keep this up soon the world will be drab and boring because nobody will make new flower types.”

And then Monsanto came along with GeRM (Genetic Rights Management).

Anyway… soundtrack price vs DVD price is about perceived value. The soundtrack in stereo playable format is basically just worth more (to the consumer) than the movie itself, clearly. Does this make pirating the DVD right? Is stealing a $40 shirt from a store OK just because it only cost 5 cents to make in Indonesia?

]]> By: Chris Meadows http://www.teleread.com/drm/talking-to-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-876810 Chris Meadows Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:27:54 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=11822#comment-876810 Come to think of it, that's true. It's just at first release that the soundtrack costs "almost" as much, since DVD prices traditionally fall after a few months while CD prices don't tend to. You can get movies in the $5 bin at Walmart now whose soundtracks are still at full price. Come to think of it, that’s true. It’s just at first release that the soundtrack costs “almost” as much, since DVD prices traditionally fall after a few months while CD prices don’t tend to. You can get movies in the $5 bin at Walmart now whose soundtracks are still at full price.

]]> By: Mike Cane http://www.teleread.com/drm/talking-to-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-876808 Mike Cane Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:17:04 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=11822#comment-876808 @Tony: "Pirate" away. You should *not* have to pay a *2nd* time for an ebook because: 1) the file format is not universal, 2) DRM locks your device out. You've paid for the *words*, not the container. Yours is a *sinless* "piracy." >>>“Why should I pay almost as much for a soundtrack as for the movie it came from?” Damn. You know, in all the years I've complained about the rip-off price of soundtrack CDs, I never linked them to the price of the DVD! In most cases, the DVD is far less! @Tony: “Pirate” away. You should *not* have to pay a *2nd* time for an ebook because: 1) the file format is not universal, 2) DRM locks your device out. You’ve paid for the *words*, not the container. Yours is a *sinless* “piracy.”

>>>“Why should I pay almost as much for a soundtrack as for the movie it came from?”

Damn. You know, in all the years I’ve complained about the rip-off price of soundtrack CDs, I never linked them to the price of the DVD! In most cases, the DVD is far less!

]]> By: Tony http://www.teleread.com/drm/talking-to-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-876105 Tony Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:34:17 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=11822#comment-876105 Piracy is one of those things that have always bothered me. I have to admit it though, I tend to do a fair bit of it. I used to buy a lot of games for my PC, I have a box of games that I played once and then shelved as they were rubbish and not lived up to the publishers rant on the back of the box. Now I tend to pirate the game first or download a demo and I then actually do go and buy the game if its any good. Books now thats another thing, I have a paper collection of hardback and paper back amounting to nearly 5000 books in all. I recently discovered the pleasure of electronic reading and started to purchase quite a few ebooks from different publishers. I stupidly got myself a ipod Touch after I destroyed my other ereading device, (it went into the toilet), Not realising that I could no longer read almost 50% of my purchased books, I am so annoyed. I am now aware of a few places where I could replace my books without any of this DRM stuff and decided that Im not going to pay a third time for something I own already. An example of an author that has written 40 books that I have purchased in Paper form and also in electronic form that has DRM. I have the entire collection paid for twice. Even though it was my fault I bought the incorrect reading device, should I have to pay again. So I now have a problem, do I join the ranks of DRM stripping, Pirateing and general law breaker or keep wasting money that could be better spent on new authors works. I know that I will end up with a few books that I dont own or have lost but I feel I have been forced down this path by the big companies. I feel a little dirty pirating a book, since I feel that the author deserves something off of me. But as I now only really read electronically, (bad eyes, need big fonts) I dont want to spend big dollars again only to have this same problem next time I give my device swimming lessons. I wish the authors would set up a web page just for those of us driven to this form, and let us know the royalties they normally recieve and let us donate to them and then send back a electronic signed copy or something. As there is no way I am buying DRM stuff again unless it is so cheap I wont care if I have to buy it over and over again. THanks for reading my Rant Piracy is one of those things that have always bothered me. I have to admit it though, I tend to do a fair bit of it. I used to buy a lot of games for my PC, I have a box of games that I played once and then shelved as they were rubbish and not lived up to the publishers rant on the back of the box. Now I tend to pirate the game first or download a demo and I then actually do go and buy the game if its any good.
Books now thats another thing, I have a paper collection of hardback and paper back amounting to nearly 5000 books in all. I recently discovered the pleasure of electronic reading and started to purchase quite a few ebooks from different publishers. I stupidly got myself a ipod Touch after I destroyed my other ereading device, (it went into the toilet), Not realising that I could no longer read almost 50% of my purchased books, I am so annoyed. I am now aware of a few places where I could replace my books without any of this DRM stuff and decided that Im not going to pay a third time for something I own already. An example of an author that has written 40 books that I have purchased in Paper form and also in electronic form that has DRM. I have the entire collection paid for twice. Even though it was my fault I bought the incorrect reading device, should I have to pay again. So I now have a problem, do I join the ranks of DRM stripping, Pirateing and general law breaker or keep wasting money that could be better spent on new authors works. I know that I will end up with a few books that I dont own or have lost but I feel I have been forced down this path by the big companies. I feel a little dirty pirating a book, since I feel that the author deserves something off of me. But as I now only really read electronically, (bad eyes, need big fonts) I dont want to spend big dollars again only to have this same problem next time I give my device swimming lessons. I wish the authors would set up a web page just for those of us driven to this form, and let us know the royalties they normally recieve and let us donate to them and then send back a electronic signed copy or something. As there is no way I am buying DRM stuff again unless it is so cheap I wont care if I have to buy it over and over again.

THanks for reading my Rant

]]> By: ficbot http://www.teleread.com/drm/talking-to-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-876080 ficbot Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:27:44 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=11822#comment-876080 I am on the side of the pirates on this one---not that I approve of law-breaking, but I agree with their points. I can look at a paper book in the bookstore and see every page, try before I buy as it were. On ebooks, you can't do that. There was one time where the brief sample chapter on Fictionwise which I used to decide on a purchase was so misleading that when I got further into my legally purchased book and realized how much violence, swear words, typos and overall just bad, amateur writing was in it, I emailed customer service and they agreed to give me a refund! Books like that give e-books a bad name. DRM is also a big issue for me. My ebookwise is my preferred book reader right now, but won't take secure ereader. Fictionwise could have gotten literally twice as many sales from me if these books were NOT the secure ones---I know it's not their fault, and the publisher decides, but as a consumer I care less about that and more about my own bottom line :) If I can't read it on the eBookwise, I don't buy it, and it frustrates me because Fictionwise has more titles which are not available at ebookwise so I prefer to shop there. And I don't like buying from ebookwise because most of the titles are protected so they can only be read on the device I have right now, which means that if my device gets lost or stolen or broken, I can't read those books anymore. It is just way more tangled a web than it has to be, and they could make so much more money of they just let people buy the books they want in their preferred ways. I am on the side of the pirates on this one—not that I approve of law-breaking, but I agree with their points. I can look at a paper book in the bookstore and see every page, try before I buy as it were. On ebooks, you can’t do that. There was one time where the brief sample chapter on Fictionwise which I used to decide on a purchase was so misleading that when I got further into my legally purchased book and realized how much violence, swear words, typos and overall just bad, amateur writing was in it, I emailed customer service and they agreed to give me a refund! Books like that give e-books a bad name.

DRM is also a big issue for me. My ebookwise is my preferred book reader right now, but won’t take secure ereader. Fictionwise could have gotten literally twice as many sales from me if these books were NOT the secure ones—I know it’s not their fault, and the publisher decides, but as a consumer I care less about that and more about my own bottom line :) If I can’t read it on the eBookwise, I don’t buy it, and it frustrates me because Fictionwise has more titles which are not available at ebookwise so I prefer to shop there. And I don’t like buying from ebookwise because most of the titles are protected so they can only be read on the device I have right now, which means that if my device gets lost or stolen or broken, I can’t read those books anymore. It is just way more tangled a web than it has to be, and they could make so much more money of they just let people buy the books they want in their preferred ways.

]]> By: Heather S. Ingemar http://www.teleread.com/drm/talking-to-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-876075 Heather S. Ingemar Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:11:42 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=11822#comment-876075 Yep. It's what I've been thinking all along -- less rules and stipulations, and you'll have a more harmonious outcome. Yep. It’s what I’ve been thinking all along — less rules and stipulations, and you’ll have a more harmonious outcome.

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