Comments on: Yep, Amazon bullied Humayun Kabir into giving up kindlenews.info

By: chris bushby

chris bushby — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 18:56:29 +0000

Hi guys interesting news – I was thinking of setting up a book club on line which I thought would be popular. Have purchased kindlebookclub.co.uk thinking it could be a really great site to encourage readers and also gleefanclub.co.uk with their upcoming tour in the UK would be really popular. Aimed for them to be free with advertising – Does the above mean these would now be impossible??

Bushers

By: David Rothman

David Rothman — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 12:35:00 +0000

Big thanks for your thoughts, Mike. My suggestion would be for people to loosen up at both Amazon and the outfits your employer deals with. I’ve already explained how there could be conditions to allow use of the name while protecting copyright. If more enlightenment is required by the courts or if there’s a need for clarifying legislation in various countries, so be it. Meanwhile here’s hoping you’re right about Amazon not bothering people beyond the affiliates! Usual “I am not a lawyer” disclaimer. Thanks. David

By: Mike Cook

Mike Cook — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:56:37 +0000

Actually David there is nothing at all underhanded about this. It is normally policy for merchants to forbid use of the brand name as part of the domain. The company I work for is an affiliate agency and out of the dozens of merchant programs we run, I don’t believe any allow this.

I am certain that if Humayun was not doing any affiliate marketing, then Amazon would not have contacted him. Unless Kindleville starts up as an Amazon affiliate then I doubt they would contact them either.

By: David Rothman

David Rothman — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:40:11 +0000

Agree totally with you, Joe. I’m also wondering if this might have implications for independent user guides—titles, both E and P. Is it possible that you could check with a Wiley lawyer on both the blog and user guide angles? Might Amazon’s domain-name-related efforts ultimately spill over into over areas? What about Kindle for Dummies? Is something like that out or planned? What will Jeff say? (An aside: Yep, if someones does a computer book with “Dummies” in the title and a yellow cover, etc., that’s a trademark violation as I see this as a civilian.)

Too bad Amazon feels this way. Like you and me, Humayun was trying to help Kindle users and along the way he was keeping the K machine on the minds of prospective buyers. The unspoken message transmitted to me is that Amazon is trying to do and control everything. That’s a Net -1.0 approach.

Thanks,
David

By: Joe Wikert

Joe Wikert — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:15:29 +0000

Hi David. Well, I have to admit that I see both sides of this. Paul Biba is right to point out the need to protect trademarks or you’ll jeopardize your ownership rights. On the other hand, I’d like to think Amazon could come up with a simple policy to allow for the use of “kindle” as part of a domain name. I do have an affiliate ID with Amazon and I use it extensively on my Publishing 2020 blog. I can’t recall if I’ve ever used it on Kindleville, but giving it up wouldn’t be a big deal to me, especially if that enabled me to keep the Kindleville name.

What I find to be particularly troubling though is the fact that we’re out here trying to help Amazon hype the device, not hurt it. Secondly, it would be extremely unfortunate if bloggers had to give up these domain names while someone with an ax to grind could easily come up with a disparaging URL that includes “kindle”… For example, I just checked and http://www.iHateKindle.com is available. A disgruntled customer could start a negative PR campaign with that domain — what could Amazon do? I’m sure they would write a cease-and-desist letter to discourage the owner from continuing its use but I can’t imagine they’d have a legal right to force it down. There are plenty of so-and-so-sucks.com sites in existence today as well. Are those deemed a violation of trademark law? I’m not a lawyer but I’d be surprised if these *sucks.com sites are illegal.

So, if those kinds of sites can exist free and clear of any liability, shouldn’t pro-Kindle ones like mine be allowed to use the name as well?

By: Paul Biba

Paul Biba — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 21:35:25 +0000

Well, David, I’m really afraid that I disagree with you completely on this. As a corporate lawyer I have more than a little familiarity with trademarks and copyright matters and I think that Amazon was completely right.

As to trademarks, which “Kindle” is, the courts have held over and over again, with no equivocation, that if a trademark owner does not enforce their registrations then the owner will loose the registration and the mark will go into the public domain. There are many examples of this happening. Perhaps the most famous is “aspirin” which started out as a trademark but the owner didn’t enforce it and so it passed into generic use. This is why you see companies like Disney forcing little mom and pop bakeries to stop using their trademarked symbols.

Nope, Amazon was correct in its actions and if I had been on Amazon’s payroll I would happily have written the letter – and believe me I have written many similar letters in the past. The public always gets riled up about this – the big guy hitting on the little guy. But if the big guy doesn’t do this, and do it on a consistent basis whether the infringer be large or small, then the big guy looses his trademark just as those who owned these trademarks lost theirs: aspirin, cellophane, nylon, thermos, escalator.

By: David Rothman

David Rothman — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 16:02:26 +0000

Brian, I totally agree. I’ve asked Humayun for a copy of correspondence between him and Amazon so we can see the source material and determine for ourselves if “transfer” was a condition. Thanks. David

By: Brian Carnell

Brian Carnell — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:56:35 +0000

Oops…accidentally posted my response on the other Kindle thread:

This is simply reprehensible on Amazon’s part.

Moreover, am I correct in understanding that they threatened to cancel Mr. Kabir’s Amazon.Com/Kindle account if he didn’t transfer the domain name? If true, that is so far beyond the pale that I can’t believe Amazon thinks they could do that without the ensuing s***storm they’re about to experience.